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| Erhu sounds different when playing it and at a distance | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 03:35 pm |
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1st Post |
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huqiner Approved
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I wonder if a particular erhu sounds different when you're playing it compared to hearing it at some distance away. I don't mean just the louder the nearer you are, but that the tone is actually different. I've noticed, even at a few metres away, when your ears are not immediately above the erhu it sounds less scratchy, more smooth and fuller. Obviously I can only hear me playing my erhu when I'm playing it. But I've noticed: When someone else plays my erhu, the tone is different (actually better), of course their skill could be a factor. When I play someone else's erhu, again it sounds different; thinner, less full, more scratchy. When I record myself playing, the further away I put the recorder the better the recorded sound. I don't think the recorder itself or the recorder quality is the cause. One possible explanation is depending on how far you are away from the erhu, you are hearing a different mixture of the combination of reflected sounds from the room and the sound from the erhu itself.
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| Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 05:14 pm |
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2nd Post |
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ychent Approved 
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That's an interesting thought. Does anyone have any knowledge of acoustics regarding this matter? Does different pitch of sound carry / disseminate differently with distance? I am aware that human ears perceive different pitches at different volume even if they are of the same decibel, but the quality of sound involves much more than just the volume. Any thoughts?
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| Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 05:20 pm |
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3rd Post |
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dsouthwood Approved 
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Higher-pitched sounds, which would probably include scratchy sounds, have a shorter wavelength. I'm not sure I remember my physics lessons clearly, but don't sounds with longer wavelengths travel farther than those with shorter wavelengths? Maybe the scratchy sounds just can't make the distance between the erhu and the recorder.
____________________ Music contains all of life. |
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| Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 08:28 pm |
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4th Post |
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ychent Approved
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Is this effect noticeable over the distance of few feet?
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| Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 03:07 am |
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5th Post |
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Den Approved 
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now you have me wondering if this is related, about a year ago I had tried a few ways to record the sound of my erhu, and tried a few different ways and each of them sounded horrendous although I didnt think the erhu on my lap was that bad. Maybe if I would have had the microphone further away.... ?? a good reason to try it again I think. (talking about the sound, not my playing ability haha) Den
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| Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 03:46 am |
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6th Post |
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Shanghai Angels Approved
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I record my erhu with a condenser Studio Mic 4inches away for the soundhole.It sounded great.
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| Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 03:54 am |
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7th Post |
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may Approved 
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Hi Den, I think you have something here! I was playing a solo piece at a concert this weekend, and the mic was placed just inches away from my erhu. Well, during rehersal, they didn't turn the mic on and when I played, the erhu sounded usual. However, when it was my turn to perform, and the mic was turned on, it was nice and loud, but then my erhu sounded really dry, metallic and shrill, it gave me quite a scare, and needless to say, that didn't help with my playing either. I was already quite nervous about performing, and when I heard that sound coming from my erhu, it really threw me off. Yikes! It was quite an experience. I 'll place the mic further next time. Let's see if that makes a difference. Thanks everyone for bringing this up and discussing this topic! : ) May Den wrote: now you have me wondering if this is related, about a year ago I had tried a few ways to record the sound of my erhu, and tried a few different ways and each of them sounded horrendous although I didnt think the erhu on my lap was that bad. Maybe if I would have had the microphone further away.... ?? a good reason to try it again I think. (talking about the sound, not my playing ability haha)
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| Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 04:27 am |
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8th Post |
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Den Approved
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I know nothing of mics, but a condenser studio 4 sounds like it must be a quality mic to begin with, mostly what I had access to is the 2 dollar webcam mic stick type of thing.... and that too must have a lot to do with it. May, I can actually feel the tingle up my spine imagining what that night must've felt like , wow , at least you continued the performance like a pro, I woulda stopped in my tracks and stared at the mike . Den
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| Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 07:50 am |
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9th Post |
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may Approved
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Me neither. I just wait for my cue, make my way over to my spot and start playing. This is only my second time playing solo. It's not easy because I find it scary, and I don't play very well. But it is a great learning experience, and I've got so much to learn! I think eventually, I'm going to be very good in playing with mistakes and mishaps since that happens quite a bit when I perform, and practice makes perfect right? LOL! Thanks for the encouragement Den! : ) May Den wrote: I know nothing of mics, but a condenser studio 4 sounds like it must be a quality mic to begin with, mostly what I had access to is the 2 dollar webcam mic stick type of thing.... and that too must have a lot to do with it. Last edited on Thu May 21st, 2009 02:08 am by may |
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 12:09 am |
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10th Post |
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woodstock Approved
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I had the same concern of why my erhu does not sound like other people’s erhu. In fact, on my recent lesson, I asked my teacher to play part of the melody that I was learning to see what my erhu sounds like. It definitely sounds different when I am not on top of the instrument. It sounds like any other erhu. I don’t recall hearing the scratchy sound on the high notes either. Is the scratchy sound that I hear on high notes part of the erhu’s characteristic? May, I see that you made the time  Will
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 08:05 pm |
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11th Post |
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may Approved
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Hardly! Actually I feel I've gone an subjected myself to embarassment with my poor performance. It's a good dose of humility for me. But I really hope to overcome this nervousness someday. So, I'm afraid I have to keep pushing myself. I also asked someone to play my erhu recently so I can hear it from a little distance and it sounded different from when I'm playing it myself. : ) May woodstock wrote: I had the same concern of why my erhu does not sound like other people’s erhu. In fact, on my recent lesson, I asked my teacher to play part of the melody that I was learning to see what my erhu sounds like. It definitely sounds different when I am not on top of the instrument. It sounds like any other erhu. I don’t recall hearing the scratchy sound on the high notes either. Is the scratchy sound that I hear on high notes part of the erhu’s characteristic?
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| Posted: Fri May 22nd, 2009 07:37 pm |
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12th Post |
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AllenZ Approved 
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May, Could it be room accoustics related too? Because when I play in my small room, it sounds a lot different than when I play in living room or even in the park. I think this factor kinda affects natural folk instruments a lot in a few cases.
____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 03:07 am |
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13th Post |
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mikebgn Approved
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may wrote:However, when it was my turn to perform, and the mic was turned on, it was nice and loud, but then my erhu sounded really dry, metallic and shrill, I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but occasionally I do small scale live sound stuff, ie. for my dad when he is playing solo erhu. There are some things the "soundguy" might do to make the sound of something sound better or worse. Here are some of my random thoughts I found this link some time ago that helped me get a sense of the fundamental and harmonic frequencies of erhu: http://triangular.stormloader.com/erhu.html With regards to distance of mic placement, for live sound using dynamic mics, I usually like to put the mic at least 4-6 inches behind the sound hole instead of right up next to the soundhole. I think this helps the mic capture the full range of frequencies including the important harmonics which give the sound it's full bodiedness. The choice of mic also affects the sound. Many mics don't have a flat frequency response but are tailored to boost certain frequencies to make vocals etc. sound better. Using certain mics may make erhu sound to high/bright pitched, even metallic and shrilly. One example I found is Shure Beta57a, which I find does this. Mics that put some emphasis on lower frequencies complement the erhu and make it sound good, because erhu is a lower frequency instrument. Examples I found are Shure SM58 and Sennheiser mics. The soundguy may also put the right or wrong EQ on the sound. They may boost or cut frequencies that make erhu sound shrilly rather than emphasis erhu frequencies. He may or may not know how to do EQ for erhu (that's where the article above helps, as well as a real time spectrum analyser, or "goldenears"). To round things off, I sometimes like to put some slight reverb or chorus effects on erhu solos to give it a more full bodied tone and make it less dry. So in the end - if your solo sounds great, it's all you. If it sounds bad, blame the soundguy :-) MikeBgn Last edited on Sat May 23rd, 2009 03:46 am by mikebgn |
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 06:39 am |
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14th Post |
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Shanghai Angels Approved
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Mike..I agree with you to a certain extend. A Mic like SM58 (which is a very dull sounding mic with poor high frequency response) will make a bright Erhu sound more natural than other mics. SM58 gives a more bassy tone to erhu. I have tried many different mics eg Sennheiser, AKG, Audix,Beyer Dynamic etc...and found that any mic that sounds dull for vocals like Sm58 will work well with Erhu.
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 06:40 am |
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15th Post |
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Shanghai Angels Approved
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Beta57a Mic must be avoided at all times. It greatly emphasizes the highs too much and will make your Erhu sound hollow and shrill.
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 08:06 am |
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16th Post |
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may Approved
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Hi AllenZ, Yes, I've also noticed my erhu sounds noticebly different when I play in different places. It certainly is an intriguing instrument! : ) May AllenZ wrote: May,
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 08:22 am |
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17th Post |
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may Approved
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Hi MikeBgn, Thanks for your thoughts! I don't know a thing about mics, so, thanks for the info. And thanks for the link to the website link! I will go check it out. But, truly, I blame myself for not staying focused on my playing instead of getting worried and distracted, and messing up. I will make sure to learn from my mistakes. : ) May mikebgn wrote:
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 11:20 am |
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18th Post |
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Shanghai Angels Approved
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May...ANY instrrunment will sound different in different places. It's pyhsics.
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 12:07 pm |
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19th Post |
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mikebgn Approved
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No need to blame yourself, really. From the sound you described, I would guess/bet that the mic was a Shure Beta57a or Beta58a. Beta58a heads are popular as wireless handheld mics. These mics have a light blue rubber band around the head; they are not so good with erhu's
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| Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 03:56 pm |
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20th Post |
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Shanghai Angels Approved
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Mike...totally agree.
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