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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner | Page:   1 2 3 |
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| Different Method Setup | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 10:20 pm |
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41st Post |
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woodstock Approved
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Hi Sung Wah, Since we are discussing the topic of dampener, I watched some of the professional players on Youtube and found that they all have a wad of material under their bridge. I went out and bought a piece of felt yesterday. I am going to play with the size of the dampener and see if I can improve the sound a little more. If not, I can always go back to the way it was. You said the snakeskin would stretch by the vibration. Of course vibration dictates by the loudness. This leads me to another question. To get the erhu louder, one has to apply pressure. How much pressure does it need? I know when it sounds like scratching a chalkboard that is too much pressure. I have a problem sometimes when I bow the inner string. It happens in the middle of bow stroke. I would get a weird sound. I can remedy that by applying more pressure to the bow hair. Of course I get a louder sound but is this correct or am I just masking my inadequacy. Another way I can get rid of the problem is to bow in a circular fashion (move the bow in an arc). Again, from the video that I have seen, they appear to apply lots of pressure when play the outer string. But it is difficult to see when they played the inner string. Can you diagnose what my problem is? Will
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| Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 10:53 pm |
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42nd Post |
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davidmdahl Approved
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While playing either string, the more bow pressure applied, the faster the bow needs to move. With light pressure, the bow can move more slowly. If you get the nails-on-the-blackboard sound, move the bow more quickly or back off on the pressure. If the sound is uneven when bowing properly, this can be a sign that there is not enough rosin on the bow. Remember that both sides of the bow need rosin. Best wishes, David Last edited on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 03:23 am by davidmdahl |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:04 am |
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43rd Post |
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dsouthwood Approved 
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This is something I posted a while ago on another forum about felt pad thickness. I had been getting very frustrated because I could not play high notes on the A string without a horrible squeaking noise. I had tried different bridges, different strings, and really worked on my bowing. Sometimes I could get a smooth sound on the high notes, but it was rare. Any tune that had a note higher than the D octave note was an embarrassment to play. I was planning to play "Jasmine Flower" in an upcoming recital, but I felt that I had to resign myself to just sounding awful on the high notes. At one lesson the squeaking noise was prominent, so I asked my teacher if he thought it was just bowing technique. He took my erhu and played "Jasmine Flower" and got exactly the same noise on the same note. He then inspected the erhu, and removed the felt padding from below the bridge. He took scissors and removed a chunk of the padding, refolded it and replaced it. The squeak was gone--even when I played it. In attempting to fix the squeak, I had added more felt to an already tight pad--in effect, trying to kill the noise by brute force. My teacher explained that the padding should press against the skin with just a gentle touch. Now I can get a smooth, pure note much farther up the string than I have ever been able to play before, and even the wolf tones on the D string seem to be tamed. The best way to describe the felt pad my teacher made is that he pulled it under the strings without loosening the strings or moving the bridge. I guess if you can't do that the pad is too thick. Sometimes it is frustrating that these instruments are so temperamental, but the silver lining is that they often can be adjusted to give the sound you want, whereas with many other instruments you get what you get and that's it.
____________________ Music contains all of life. |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 03:21 am |
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44th Post |
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tansungwah Approved 
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woodstock wrote: Hi Sung Wah,Hi Will, If you can post a video of yourself playing the Erhu we might be able to see more clearly. Perhaps we can have a thread where people post their practise videos and we can comment constructively. But you can try what David suggests first. And thank you Clyde, you give me too much credit. I'm just sharing what I know like the rest of the people here. Sung Wah
____________________ Online Store: Erhu Pipa Guzheng Liuqin Ruan Sanxian Yangqin Hulusi Dizi Suona Xiao Chinese Music Instruments Blog Follow me on Twitter! |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 07:13 am |
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45th Post |
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Clyde Approved 
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God Bless Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 05:55 am by Clyde |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 04:10 pm |
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46th Post |
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woodstock Approved
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Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. As to David’s suggestion, I have done that. I thought that is just a way of masking the underlying problem. As to dsouthwood’s experience with his problem and solution, I tried it as prescribed in the response. I can’t hear the difference. Thick wad or thinner wad under the bridge sounds the same to me. As an ex-EE, I learned that human ears couldn’t tell the change if it is less than 3db. So maybe there was a difference. But since I only paid 43 cents for felt, I am going to try again with different thickness. Clyde, You are a senior when it comes to the erhu; I respect your opinions. This is not an argument but an observation. I agree with you on the point of the bow is the engine in playing the erhu. I really don’t want to get too technical on this but if you look at it from the physic of it. When we apply pressure on the bow hair, the pressure would be greater where it is closer to the fingers and pressure would be less as you go toward the tip of the bow. When we as students, we are taught the same fundamentals by all teachers. But I think when they play the erhu, they do something that is idiosyncratic and not part of fundaments that is taught to the students. When I watch the pros play, I see that their bow movement is never in a linear fashion. What I am trying to say is maybe they are doing something to compensate “whatever”. As beginner I will do whatever that is needed to get better. Sung Wah, It is a good idea. But it would be tough to video myself since I don’t own a video recorder or a digital camera for that matter. Will
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:35 pm |
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47th Post |
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Clyde Approved
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God Bless Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 05:57 am by Clyde |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:59 pm |
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48th Post |
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Den Approved 
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so, for the first time, I sat in front of a mirror to play, to see what it looks like while making all that noise. the very first thing I noticed is my bad habit of having my left elbow hanging too low. How critical is this? for me it is a comfortable position. seems like a mirror might be a good idea, I caught this body position right away. Den
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 10:51 pm |
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49th Post |
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woodstock Approved
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Thanks again for the advice. I guess that is one of the questions that I am going to ask my erhu teacher in June. I understand totally on the even pressure on the bow. I guess I have to show my teacher and let him tell me what I am doing wrong. Sung Wah is right. It is easier to detect the error visually. No words can substitute that. In the meanwhile I’ll forge ahead and hopefully through practice I will get the feel of it. Will
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 11:10 pm |
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50th Post |
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AllenZ Approved 
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Woodstock, you should ask Sifu Cheung for a Sanxian Performance too.... he's phucking crazy on that. I was trying to ask him if I can see the Sanxian to compare it to my Shamisen, and he went for around 5 minutes doing quick Chinese tunes to Mozart at Jim Hendrix speeds..... ripping thru a bunch of modern songs too. Too bad the class after us, kicked us out. I also met one of Sifu Cheung's intermediate students today too..... wow, she's uber good.
____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2008 01:20 am |
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51st Post |
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dsouthwood Approved
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At my last lesson, I asked my teacher about the same problem. When I am bowing slowly on the outer string and pulling the bow, when I am starting with the bow close to the frog end I get a noisy scraping sound. When I start the bowing in the middle of the bow, I do not. So I asked my teacher how to eliminate that, and he told me very definitely that when starting the bowing from that end it is necessary to push very gently on the string at first and then increase the force as the bow travels. My take on it is that it is a question of leverage. The pressure of the bow hair against the string should be equal throughout the bowing, but it takes more force to achieve that pressure when the tip end of the bow is pressing the string than it does when the frog end of the bow is pressing the string. So if you use less force at the frog end to compensate for the greater leverage at that end, increase the force gradually as you bow, and use more force at the tip end to compensate for the lesser leverage at that end, the actual pressure of the hair against the string should remain the same throughout. Dennis
____________________ Music contains all of life. |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 12:40 am |
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52nd Post |
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woodstock Approved
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Hi Allenz, It sounds interesting but I don't think I will do that because it would be on my "DIME" if he starts to play the stuff that is not in my lesson plan. So you think Mr Zhang is a good teacher? If you have a chance go to the citizen center in the old PS23 at the corner of Bayard and Mulberry St and see if there are any good erhu players there. Most likely there would be gaohu players only. I think they play only the Cantonese stuff. This is probably the same group that is in Phile's post. But check it out anyway. Dennis, What you said is what I meant by the "PHYSICS" of it. Unfortunately, I did not go into detail to elaborate what I meant. I understand, as Clyde pointed out, that the pressure on the bow has to be even. The pressure is greater at the frog end than the tip. The player has to adjust so the pressure would be even through out the length of the bow. What you described is the adjustment that is needed to have constant (even) pressure on the bow. I think I know what my problem is. There are so many things to concentrate on that I sometime don't do the adjustment correctly. My motto is "IT IS TOUGH TO BE AN AMATEUR"  . Thanks.Will
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 12:47 am |
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53rd Post |
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AllenZ Approved
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Will, Nah, he showed me afterclass time of course. That's why the other guy got pissed when we were still taking up studio. Are you talking about the park in "Funeral Street"? The street that is filled with Chinese Funeral Homes. I seen a few of the old Cantonese musicians play in the Spring and the Summer. Cantonese stuff like this right? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3BWTmcrbl0) Sit thru it, he mentions how most of all the Hu techniques are the same, but just have some specific cultural differences and gives some cool technical examples. So far right now, I know his Sanxian is superb. LoL Last edited on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 12:50 am by AllenZ ____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 05:34 pm |
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54th Post |
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woodstock Approved
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Hi Allenz, Thanks for the link. I guess you have like the Cantonese music to appreciate it. I have passed the old PS23 and have heard music in there many times in the winter. I guess the group moves to the park in the summer. I am going to check when I get up there in June. Hello Clyde, I went to link provided by Allenz and heard "autumn moon over placid lake" played with on gaohu. It is definitely not the kind of sound that I like. On this same link I heard the same score played on an erhu. It sounded much better or at least the sound that I like. It has depth. The gaohu sounded tinny. This gives me more the reason to get rid of it. Will
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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55th Post |
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Clyde Approved
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God Bless Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 05:58 am by Clyde |
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 09:36 pm |
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56th Post |
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davidmdahl Approved
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My erhu teacher is very fond of Cantonese music, and I am very much in agreement. While the sound of the gaohu was unpleasantly strange to me at first, I now enjoy the sweet sound very much. My own gaohu is of much higher quality than my erhu, and it is a joy to play, although my cat would not agree. I know of no better artist on the gaohu than Yu Qi Wei, and listening to him play Autumn Moon over a Tranquil Lake (Ping Hu Qiu Yue) is heaven for me. I had a Guangdong-style gaohu but did not like the playing position between my knees. I now play a Man Rui Xin gaohu played in erhu-position, and find it much more comfortable. Best wishes, David
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2008 01:57 am |
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57th Post |
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AllenZ Approved
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You're welcome Clyde, just sharing so we can discuss and share knowledge more, its good for everyone. I liked how the performer was saying how you can add some technical distinction to any song to make it really shine~
____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12th, 2008 03:20 am |
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58th Post |
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Clyde Approved
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God Bless Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 05:59 am by Clyde |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 09:12 pm |
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59th Post |
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cchow Approved
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Your dampener's position really depends on your erhu's tone. placing it closer to the bridge may produce a warmer and softer sound whereas plaving it closer to the Tok may produce louder but rougher sound. According to my experience, a high quality erhu with less "wolf sound" can bear having the damperner away from the bridge. Unfortunately, some lower quality erhus can't bear it. In conclusion, is definitely your choice; nothing is right or wrong in this matter. You may want it to be closer to your bridge one day but away form it another day depending on your mood. Chong
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| Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2009 04:42 pm |
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60th Post |
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Shanghai Angels Approved
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This is an excellent thread which will all of us especially those newcomers to erhu playing. I agree that a mirror will show all the flaws in your playing. Make sure your right elbow goes out 1st when you bow..and move your elbow BACK IN upon returning. Check that with the mirror.
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