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| Moderated by: Richard Hefner |
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| lessons or no lessons? - Clawhammer Banjo - Banjo - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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erinmeola Approved
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Hi all you ezfolks out there. After wanting to for a long time, I finally bought myself a banjo and signed up for clawhammer lessons. I have had two lessons so far but I am a little worried that they will actually discourage me from sticking to it. My teacher starts to sound very aggitated when I do not pick things up after her showing me a few times (this really annoys me.. aren't I the one paying her to help meeeee learn?), and on top of that she is teaching everything by sound and will not provide tablature for anything she shows me. She makes a great point about why learning by sound is best (and I agree with her)... but I have zero music experiance and have figured out that sometimes I just can't trust my ears and I need something on paper to refer to when my mind draws a blank. She doesn't believe that I have been practicing and said that if I was, it would take less than a week for my clawhammer hand to be able to hit the right string without having to look. Now maybe I am a little slow but I am pretty sure in a while it will click. Am I wrong to think that she should be encouraging me to keep at it instead of making me feel dumb for not getting it yet? To top it off, she is quite expensive (and gave away my time slot while I was out of town!) So I am reaching out to the clawhammer community... Should I stick with the lessons or drop them and try to learn at my own pace with books? I know that nothing beats a teacher, but I am worried that I will get so frustrated with the lessons that I will stop wanting to play. I have been unable to find another clawhammer teacher in my area. Whatcha think? New and confused, erin
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Flatlander Approved
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I think it is hard to learn from books & videos because you are new so of course you have no idea whether or not you are doing it right. I would just tough it out for a while and when you get the hang of it you can ditch her.
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Richard Hefner Administrator 
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I think a lot of people are just as well off without a teacher. There are plenty of good books, DVDs, and websites these days where you can learn to play. It's true that you don't have the feedback of a private teacher, but you can learn at your own pace and learn from a variety of players (everybody's a little different). There are some really good teachers who might be very helpful, but there are plenty of stinkers as well (I think you might have found one). I don't have any data on it, but my guess would be that most people just learn from books, CDs, videos, websites, etc., and also pick up a lot from getting with other people and playing and just learning as they go, not really from taking private lessons. There's room for learning in a variety of ways though. If you find a good teacher, then take some lessons; if not, take another route for a while -- there's plenty to learn, and many ways to go about it. 
____________________ Richard Hefner Webmaster, ezFolk.com MP3 Page: http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/richardhefner |
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Philj200 Approved 
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Learning from CDs, the Internet or books is possible. But you have to be pretty darn self-motivated. Do you have friends that play banjo. Just jamming is a great way to pick up technique and reportoire. Where are you located. Perhaps another EZFer can point about a more patient, sympatico teacher. There is a section on teachers around here someplace.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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I'd ditch a teacher who treated me like that, but that's just me. It sounds like you might be at a point where some DVD/books might help. The best I have seen is the Dan Levenson "Clawhammer Banjo from Scratch." You will start out in a different tuning than I imagine your teacher has started you. The first tune or 2 is in double-C (gCGCD), and then you move up to double-D, which is the same tuning capoed 2 frets. This is because the tunes Dan presents are mainly OT fiddle tunes. Or, you could try some of Richard's videos and teaching tabs here on ezFolk. If there are other banjo players around, or jams or music circles, don't be afraid to attend and ask questions - most of us are friendly and more than willing to help a beginner. Good luck, and "Non illigitimi carbonundrum." Brad ("I'll tune up my fiddle and rosin my bow, and make myself welcome wherever I go." Tommy Jarrell - Drunken Hiccough)
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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Cristofski Approved
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I've found that most music teachers aren't really cut out to be teachers. Lot's of ego's get in the way and thing's like that. I've had plenty of bad experiences. However, I do think that the teachers how take time to put together tutorials and books know what they are doing. This site for example has a few tutorials that can get your fingers moving. I agree with what people on here are saying. Pick up some DVD's and books. You might be much happier that way. If there are anythings that confuse you or you flat out don't get, you can always ask on this forum.
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13ill_Lumbergh Approved 
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Erin, I picked up the clawhammer from this websight about ten days ago. Today I have almost mastered level 2 god rest ye merry gentleman. If I was you I wouldnt pay someone that doesnt sound like they belong in a teaching roll anyway. Just watch Mr. Hefner's video over and over. He gos over it real slow, and then just practice the strums very slowly until you can speed them up. No sense in trying to scale the fretboard until you have that figured out. GOod Luck, and I think this websight is better than any paid teacher out there. Best Regards, Clay Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2007 09:46 pm by 13ill_Lumbergh |
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erinmeola Approved
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Thank you for all of your great responses. I think I am going to cut back from lessons once a week to lessons once a month. I think that way I will be able to pick away at things on my own and still have someone to make sure I'm not heading in the wrong direction. Finally after repeating the motions over and over my finger is finding the correct string without me staring at it so I am can make some chords (while staring at my left hand  ) Oh and I am able to practice without giving myself a headache now! I sure wish I could be that far along after 10 days of playing. I have been working quite a bit lately but have been able to set aside 30 min every day to practice. Again... thanks for all of your comments. Erin
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cockneybanjo Approved 
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I find with lessons that I do best when I have them at intervals, sometimes I go every week and sometimes I don't go for several weeks. Partly this is because I work offshore and my teacher does some touring but it works for both of us, and I get some time to practice things so when we meet I have made progress
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Alba Approved
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If you can get a good Teacher then great if not I would not bother ,take things at your own pace and look at DVD's ,books and sites like this and banjo hangout. I have been a beginner for about a year and a half and after trying to rush things I sort of hit a block . I started again slowly using advice from various sites, Pat Costello books,and CDROM, Ken Perlman DVD and I have really come on leaps and bounds over last few months.though I say it myself .This was coupled by having access to tab which I really wanted to play in Banjo players songbook(scottish /Irish) this lead me to try most of the other songs where I found I actually knew tunes already but not under same name titles. I can play penny whistle "reasonably" having been learner for over 20 years and now some soprano uke which is waaay too fun !!! (I wish I'd bought one as a kid!) My wife and kids are musical (I have never had a lesson in my life) and I envy how they can read music (I tried following their progress when they first began Piano and guitar and they lost me by lesson 3  ) They have great teachers and I am amazed at their progress so much so that 9 year son picked out "wish you a merry xmas on Piano,guitar and..........banjo !" and he is only taught guitar. To me that showed a depth of understanding of music conveyed by his teacher and aided by natural ability which I just dont have .In short you can do it yourself with a "little help" from the banjo enthusiasts on this site and others but if you get the chance of a good teacher then go for it ...or send them to Scotland Good Luck
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Tinpan Approved 
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Hi Erin, I just got my banjo about 2 weeks ago and my previous music experience amounted to downloading bootleg Dead tapes. 2 things really helped me out. The first was this lesson posted here: http://www.ezfolk.com/forums/forum5/2408.html I hope you have broadband, I downloaded it over about a 3 day period and it is well worth it. I couldn't hit a string on the down pick to save my life. Patrick's dad had a nice tip on overlapping your middle finger slightly over your ring finger. I tried that and finally I was able to make clear notes. I have now moved onto using my index finger, but hey it got me started. My next step was to go to Richard's awesome tab collection. About 3 days ago I stopped trying to play the tabs and actually read his instructions. What a concept, stop and read. Anyway, I took his advice and just sat down and practiced downpicking just the melody parts of some of his tabs. Once I was was comfortable doing that I could actually play, well maybe you can't call it that yet, but I could actually make it all the way through the song. Now I am going back over to Patrick's dad's video tutorial and working on Boil them Cabbage Down and Go Tell Aunt Rhody. I am actually trying to play the song and sing it, not that anyone will want to hear me sing, but it is helping me with the rythym. Plus I get the extra added benefit of watching my 11 year old give me reallly strange looks every night. Good luck and hang in there. If I can figure this stuff out, anyone can, ...really. Tinpan
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cockneybanjo Approved
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I know the one about the 11 year old.. my daughter won't admit to her college friends that her old dad owns both a pick-up AND a banjo! spot on about tab though. A lot of tabs are very personal arrangements, and quite a few are plain wrong. Many ( especially BG ones ) contain such a flurry of rolls and grace notes that they are unreadable. If you want CH tab, look for Mike Iverson's ones. They work, the fingering makes sense and they often have mp3 files which match the tab, rather than containing a lot of extra detail
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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Both Dan Levenson's video and Patrick Costello's video are great. If you are paying for lessons, you need to ask yourself whether you are getting what you pay for. Many music teachers teach a lot less effectively than they should. There's no particular course for most instruments in how to properly teach. Sad, really. If you are just frustrated by the steep initial learning curve and your teacher is understanding of that, stick with lessons. This isn't as intuitive as up-picking. At least not at first. A teacher early on can make a real difference in the long run. If your teacher is demotivating you, drop the lessons for now. Use a couple of videos and just work the bum-ditty to death. I don't care what Dan Levenson says, I hear a bum ditty when I play. When you can play the clawhammer rhythm while you sing a song (try 3 Blind Mice, as you don't need to change chords on that one), add in the D7 chord and practice just making the change. Don't stress if you keep losing the rhythm every time you change chords. Eventually, if you stick to it, you will get it. Really. I started out about 4 years ago and I forget why I decided to frail instead of pick bluegrass. Some whim, really, as the up-picking is more intuitive for my fingers. It took me months to learn the clawhammer stroke so it sounded right. Don't be intimidated by guys who can learn it in a few days! My experience is that people who pick things up really fast are not the best teachers later on. The people who had to struggle for a lot longer to learn a skill are the ones able to eventually teach it well. In a few years, you will be giving informal front-porch lessons to interested folks and you'll do it better because you have been there and dealt with the frustration of not getting it immediately. Really. Get the frailing hand down solid. Yeah, it is just plain boring to listen to that same stroke over and over again. But do it anyway. It is your foundation that lots of beautiful music will be built upon. Eventually, you start singing with it. Then, you suddenly realize that you actually can sing (took me a couple of years to get where I could sing with the banjo - I wish I had followed the Costello method early on, but I was lured into desire to play fancy solos) and you start singing. I now play for my son's second grade class every Friday. We do goofy songs, I'm sometimes way off key, and half the time I'm the only one singing (The Mr. Banjo Show!), but I am the most popular adult who doesn't work for the school. I get hugs from second-graders when I show up to pick up my boy in the afternoons. I get little kids saying they want to learn to play the banjo (I start lessons with one on Tuesday). And if I didn't have a solid frailing hand, I wouldn't be there. And, above all, have fun with it. -Patrick
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wannauke Approved
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It might be less than ideal to teach yourself to play, but its got to be more efficient then putting up with an instructor you dont like.
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John Herrington Approved
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Thanks for the encouraging word, Mr. Hefner. I read everything I can get my hands on, listen to everying I can download, and am about to wear out my Fender (rice burner, I guess) banging away at it. After 6 months, I feel pretty good, until I hear one of you guys play! Oh, well, its more fun than anything I have done in a long time. Incidently I'm 73 years old and beginning banjo. Really enjoy your forums. This is my first post. John Herrington oldjohn@rtconnect.net
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Charlie Approved 
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Welcome John, You are not alone on this site and can get plenty of help from the members, There are a few of us older folks here also as I am 75 and Verne is some where there also. Being old may take some things away from us, but not our banjo's and we can have as much fun with them even if we can't play very good as some of the younger guys and gals. Let us hear from you and long live old people Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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When I mention the Costello method, I'm not trying to be silly. Patrick's book starts with a couple of chords and some simple songs. It is amazing how much music out there only needs three chords. If you can sing the song, it really is a whole lot easier to find the melody on your own. I read this in How and Tao, but didn't really want to do it. Then, I got frustrated with the way that every new tune I learned was a totally "from scratch" endeavor. I didn't have the intuitive understanding of how it all is related. Went to just singing with the banjo and now a lot more of it makes sense. I'm no expert, but I'm getting it better than ever before. Learning chords first with solid rhythm will give you the foundation to do a whole lot more than learning each solo separately will. Oh, and Pete Wernick (bluegrass Dr. Banjo) says the same thing! It works no matter what style you pick. There's a whole lot of great free stuff available on playing music and I think that it is amazing. However, it can also be hard to weed the good stuff from the bad. The most amazing thing about the internet is that people seem to come out of the woodwork to share anything and everything they know how to do so others can learn. And when folks just give it away (like right here), that's just plain wonderful. Let us know how things are working out with that teacher, okay? -Patrick
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| ezFolk Forums > Banjo > Clawhammer Banjo > lessons or no lessons? | |
