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| Moderated by: Richard Hefner | Page: 1 2   |
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| tenor banjo as a "change of pace" from baritone uke? - Baritone Uke - Ukulele - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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Dave Alexander Approved
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I'm considering buying another bari uke, since my kids and wife won't let me near the one I bought. (No kidding. I can't get any practice time at all.) I suggested to someone about a "Baritone banjolele" and they wrote back asking if I really should get a tenor banjo. Any thoughts? I picked up a soprano uke, but I really don't want to learn a new chord system. I gather I can restring a tenor banjo -- or retune it to the bari/guitar style tuning and get a similar sound to a banjolele...??? I read this is Chicago tuning. For the record, I absolutely love the bari uke I bought. I paid 150 for a Kala bari uke, and it is completely cool. The bari uke doesn't always sound enough like a standard uke to my ear, but that's good. I teach 4th grade, and can't wait to use the uke in class. (Singing multiplication tables, etc.)
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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Will Approved 
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Dave, I play a tenor banjo in Chicago (DGBE) tuning, and so does Philj200. You will need to replace the CGDA-tuned tenor strings with a set of standard 5-string banjo strings. You can then transfer the same chord shapes over from baritone uke to the tenor banjo, if not necessarily the same songs. This will allow you to get a banjo sound without learning a completely different tuning. Here's are some instrumentals and songs that I've posted using this instrument: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/audio.php BanjoHut.com is a dealer that I've ordered from before - they have great prices and their banjos are set up in their shop before they ship. They sell a nice tenor banjo package for $229, which also includes an instructional DVD & book (keep in mind that these lessons are for a CGDA-tuned tenor banjo), picks. tuner, strap, banjo gig bag and instrument setup: http://banjohut.com/tenor_banjo.htm  Last edited on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 08:58 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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Dave Alexander Approved
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I bought one on fleabay about 5 min ago. The adventure continues. I'll post a link later. Dave
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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rskelley Approved
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I agree with Will. I have a Plectrum tenor -- similar to the other 4 string tenors, but with a longer scale -- and have it tuned DGBE so I don't have to learn other fingerings. I have been intrigued by the idea of an "Irish Tenor", short scale similar to that of a baritone uke, and outfit it with Worth baritone strings. Now that would be very similar to playing a baritone, both size and fingering.
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stevengaub Approved
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I needed a little more volum in the song leading I was doing. I got tired of packing an amp for my baritone Uke. I have a banjo playing friend and he can run you out of the house with it's volume. I purchased an old cheep tenor banjo and tuned it to the DGBE tuning. By the way this tuning on the tenor banjo is called Chicago tuning. I love it and have enjoyed the arrangment so much I have a much more expensive tenor ordered from Gold tone and am ancious to get it. Do go for the tenor banjo. There is much said about which strings to use and I have not settled on that subject. The last set was the standerd 5 string banjo strings. That was all I could find in a store near me.
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Will Approved
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stevengaub wrote: I needed a little more volum in the song leading I was doing. I got tired of packing an amp for my baritone Uke. I have a banjo playing friend and he can run you out of the house with it's volume. I purchased an old cheep tenor banjo and tuned it to the DGBE tuning. By the way this tuning on the tenor banjo is called Chicago tuning. I love it and have enjoyed the arrangment so much I have a much more expensive tenor ordered from Gold tone and am ancious to get it. Do go for the tenor banjo. There is much said about which strings to use and I have not settled on that subject. The last set was the standerd 5 string banjo strings. That was all I could find in a store near me. A tenor or plectrum banjo with a resonator shell on the back is even louder. In any case, the steel-string banjo is loud when played with a pick. You'll find the 4-string DBGE banjo a verstatile instrument if you jam in groups that perform different styles of music, especially if they play country or folk music, and you find yourself in a room full of guitars (that happens often for me). As for strings, a regular 5-string banjo set will work well in DGBE for either the tenor or plectrum banjos. (I currently have nickel-wound Cleartone coated electric guitar strings on my tenor banjo.)
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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Dave Alexander Approved
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I bought a Kay tenor banjo off e-bay and am waiting for delivery. Thanks to everyoe who has chimed in. The guys at the guitar place down the road say they've set up a tenor banjo for Chicago tuning. I should come clean. I studied guitar as kida million years ago and quit after never mastering the F chord. 30+ years later I picked up a bari uke and love it. My three daughters start bass, and guitar lessons tomorrow. The whole family is getting into playing. My 14-yr old is playing a version of "Welcome to my Life" by Simple Plan as I type. She's been strumming for about a week. I imagine by Christmas we'll have a painted school bus and matching shirts. I teach 4th grade and plan to use the uke and the banjo in the classroom. Cowboy songs introduce the western stories in our reading lessons...etc. Thanks for the help. Dave 
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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Dave Alexander Approved
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I have it. I bought D'Addario banjo strings, but don't know which ones to put where. The sizes and styles are: .25mm plain steel .30mm plain steel .41mm plain steel .58mm nickel round wound .25mm plain steel Obviously one of the .25mm is the fifth string... Which I don't need? My gut tells me to put the .58 at the "top" (the D string) the .41 next and so on. But then my gut also tells me to wait until I get better information. (I'm googling it now.) Anybody want to set me straight? Thanks in advance. Dave
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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Will Approved
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Dave Alexander wrote: I have it. I bought D'Addario banjo strings, but don't know which ones to put where. The sizes and styles are: Here's how to install your new banjo strings and tune to DGBE: 1) Install the thickest string (0.58 mm) in the low D position, the position closest to you. (If you have a digital tuner, it should read "3D" when tuned to the correct pitch). Once that string is tuned to D, press your fingertip behind the 5th fret, pluck the string, and you will generate the G note that is your next target. As you tighten the next string up to your target, keep comparing the pitch of the 2nd string with the lowest string fretted at the 5th fret, then let your digital tuner fine tune it up to pitch. 2) Install the 0.41 mm string in the second lowest string slot, and tune it up to G (digital tuner would read "3G"). When the string is in tune, press the string down behind the FOURTH (4th, not 5th) fret, and pluck the string to generate the next higher note, which is B. 3) Install the 0.30 mm string and tune it up to B ("3B" on the digital tuner). When tuned, press the B string down on the 5th fret and pluck the string to generate the high E note. 4) Install the 0.25 mm string and tune it up to E ("4E" on the digital tuner). You will probably need to re-tune each string again. Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 03:56 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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Dave Alexander Approved
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Will: Thanks. I'll let you know how it turns out. Dave
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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Dave Alexander Approved
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Will: This was a good purchase, but it'll take some getting used to. It really is sensitive. Strum a chord or hit a note and it sustains for a long time. I've been experimenting with a rolled up towel to dampen the sound. Even putting my left hand into position to play a chord can create sound. It's like working with a really sensitive microphone. I'm toying with the idea of bari uke strings, or nylon guitar strings for this. I assume I can't really hurt it much, since the banjo can take the stress of steel strings. I want a slightly fuller sound. Right now it reminds me of "wind chimes." This weekend I might take it into a guitar/banjo shop and see what they think about the sound. My first impression is that the thing plays very much like a bari uke, but it will be suited perfectly for some songs, and poorly suited for others. Oh Suzanna sounds great. Night they Drove ol Dixie Down....great. Since I'm using this in my classroom to have fun, I really can't miss. The old songs I use work well. I'm going to work hard to resist the temptation to follow up really wrong answers with the first bars of "Dueling Banjos." Steven, RS, Will....Thanks for the advice. Dave
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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Dave Alexander Approved
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We get a lot of readers, but few writers on here, so I figured I'd update. I never did get to the music store, since I got used to the banjo sound. I was complaining that it was twangy. Well, it's a banjo. I do have to muffle the sound, but that's normal, I hear. I had to learn not to lift my fingers from a chord until a few seconds after the song is done...since the strings are still vibrating. I can't imagine anybody playing a banjo without something muffling the sound. I'm going to find some good quality foam or something to put inside it. The towel just looks cheezy.(IMO) I'd encourage bari uke players to consider the tenor banjo. Some songs are just perfect for bajo. I was woried that the fretboard wouldn't have enough room for my 4 fat fingers, but that's not an issue. It is an instrument which requires you to really hit the right spot on the fretboard -- since every mistake is amplified. Have fun everybody. Keep on ukin'.
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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HowlinHobbit Approved 
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Dave Alexander wrote: I can't imagine anybody playing a banjo without something muffling the sound. I'm going to find some good quality foam or something to put inside it. The towel just looks cheezy.(IMO) My friend has a little banjo uke that he re-strung with steel (and put into tenor banjo tuning, i.e. fifths). What he uses to damp the sound is a little stuffed toy. It works perfectly and is sort of like the instrument's "mascot" as well.
____________________ Howlin' Hobbit Got Uke? MySpace ezFolk UkeLand |
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stevengaub Approved
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Why muff the sound. The volume is why I went to the Tenor Banjo. I do know a 5 string player that uses a mute on the bridge to pick out tunes to prepare to play the song. Look into the bridge mute.
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Will Approved
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The bridge mute was designed for practicing banjo at a much lower volume, so as not to disturb family members. I've never seen it used for performances. The muting techniques for banjo are sometimes used to reduce overtones as well as overall volume. Try this tip provided by Patrick Costello in his video... Take a small wad of cotton and tape it to the back of the banjo head, directly underneath the bridge.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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RSteve Approved
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Strings: All right, let's determine what feel, tonality, and volume you want. You've got a Kay tenor. First thing we have to know is number of frets. Has it got 17 or 19? Irish tenors have 17 and a shorter scale. A 17 fret tenor usually has a scale somewhere around 19-20", basically the same as a baritone uke. If your banjo has 17 frets it may be a short scale. Measure from the nut to the middle of the twelfth fret. Double the number. Let's say you measure 9.5" from the nut to the twelfth fret, your scale is 19". If that's close to the scale number, just take a set of baritone uke strings, DGBE, and string the banjo exactly as you would your baritone uke. BUT, remember you have a floating bridge on a banjo. Set the bridge at 19" on the head, measured from the nut. Tune each string open, DGBE. Adjust the bridge slightly as you pluck each string at the 12th fret. If the bridge is placed correctly you'll hear dgbe. You may have to slightly angle the bridge for stretch compensation. Okay, so it's a Kay tenor. I believe most Kay tenors have 19 frets and a scale of 22-23". If you want less volume and "twang" but a banjo sound, plus the comfort of nylon strings, I'd go with LaBella Fractional Guitar Strings, FG134 for a 3/4 size guitar and a scale length of 22.5 inches. Use the DGBE strings and discard the low A and low E. Proceed as noted above. Measure scale, place bridge, compensate.
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Dave Alexander Approved
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RSteve: Based upon your measuring instructions, I determined that the bridge was about 1 inch "off." It's 11 and 1/2 inches from nut to center of 12th fret. By my calculations -- and RSteve's formula, the bridge is now in the correct place. Now there're exactly 23 inches nut to bridge. There are 19 frets. I'm keeping the banjo strings on for now, but does anyone see a problem with using guitar strings -- even nylon strings with this. I guess I'm not going to put too much pressure on the neck. (I'm assuming that banjo strings are pulling plenty hard.) And is there going to be much tonal difference? Experimenting will tell, I guess. As far as muffling the sound, that's neccessary. The mere act of placing a finger on a string makes a loud noise. Like touching a phonograph needle. Googling "banjo mute" brought some interesting designs: http://www.folkofthewood.com/page5433.htm (no longer available) http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/BA74.htm http://www.frets.com/fretspages/Musician/Banjo/BanjoMutes/banjomutes.html http://www.mikekeyes.com/banjomute <-- This one is home made, but looks easy. Food for thought.
____________________ "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane..." Jimmy Buffett |
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Will Approved
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Dave Alexander wrote: RSteve: When I first bought my tenor banjo, I first tried the light gauge guitar strings that I had on hand to re-tune it to DGBE, but they were too thick and I didn't like the tone, and I ended up buying a set of standard banjo strings. Stick with banjo strings - they're lighter in gauge, and most of them have nickel wound strings rather than phosphor bronze windings of guitar strings. Most banjo necks will have truss rods in them, so don't worry about string tension (which would break the strings if it was excessive); besides, DGBE tuning is lower in tension because your scale length on the tenor banjo is only 23" vs. the normal 26" on a long scale neck. I wouldn't recommend using nylon strings on a banjo - just my opinion, but I don't think nylon strings sound very good compared to steel strings for this type of instrument. One thing that a 4-string banjo allows you to do is to capo freely, because you don't have a 5th string to play or worry about tuning independently. Unlike a guitar, which loses a lot of sustain and resonance in the notes when capoed very far up the neck , a banjo retains its punch. Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 02:03 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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RSteve Approved
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Dave Alexander wrote: It's 11 and 1/2 inches from nut to center of 12th fret. By my calculations -- and RSteve's formula, the bridge is now in the correct place. Now there're exactly 23 inches nut to bridge. I'm keeping the banjo strings on for now, but does anyone see a problem with using guitar strings -- even nylon strings with this. Not a problem at all. Here's another suggestion for strings:
Bear in mind, all banjo ukes are designed for nylon strings. Certainly, nylon strings won't have the bright sound of steel strings on your Kay tenor banjo. I assume you'll be primarily playing chords, without a pick or fancy strumming patterns; perfect for playing in the classroom, without the ringing sound of steel strings encroaching into other classrooms. The nylon strings won't have the same tension on the head as steel, so volume will be significantly lessened. Last edited on Thu Sep 11th, 2008 01:36 am by RSteve |
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