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| Tenor Tuning Trouble - General Banjo Topics - Banjo - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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oofers Approved
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Hello all. I am confused about string gauges for a tenor banjo. I am experienced guitarist, but the myriad of banjo types and tunings is all new to me. Two weeks ago, I was visiting my 15-yr old nephew. He got a 17-fret tenor banjo for Christmas and wanted me to help him get it ready to play. It already had strings on it, but I noticed that even the lowest string was not wound. In fact all 4 strings were plain steel and appeared to be about the same gauge. It was acquired from a yard sale, so who knows what was done with it befoe. It was tuned DGBD. Doing internet research, I realized that this is not a correct tuning for tenor. From what I can tell, the most common tuning for a tenor banjo is CGDA. Seeing that the most common tuning for a typical 5-string is high G for the drone, followed by DGBD, my theory is that the previous owner was a 5-string player who tuned the tenor to what he or she was familiar with, rather than relearning the fretboard for the appropriate tuning. I explained this to my nephew-- that his banjo had was tuned incorrectly, and if he really wanted to get serious about playing the thing, he should get the correct strings and tuning. I even gave him an explanation of how once it is tuned properly, it will be easier to play (when the strings are 5ths apart, the patterns repeat, fingering intervals remain consistent, etc). I am the only musical family member he has, so he was really dependent on me to get him going, but I had to leave early the next morning. I told him to bring his banjo to a music store and they will not only sell him the correct strings, they will string it for him as well. So I return this weeked and ask him how it went. He hands me the banjo. Sure enough, the gauges get smaller as they should, and the lowest is round-wound. However, to my surprise it is still in the open G tuning. Puzzled, I ask my nephew to show me the box the strings came in. Turns out they sold him regular banjo strings (Martin Vegas Medium, V730). The gauges listed on the back: D - .010 B - .012 G - .016 C or D - .023 G - .010 Thinking maybe my previous research was wrong, I once again hit the internet banjo sites looking for answers. I come across a site selling various Martin Vega strings. Looking at the picture for tenor strings, the packaging is identical to the one my nephew had, except it says "TENOR" where my nephew's says "MEDIUM". He says that the music store told him that these strings are correct, and he can just use the extra string (the drone) as a backup for the high D string. I get kinda pissed at this point. Either: 1) they are grossly incompetent, actually thinking that this is how you string the thing or 2) since the banjo was already tuned to open G when he brought it to them asking for the correct strings, they thought that's how he wanted it tuned (although they should have realized he was a kid who didn't know a thing about the banjo) or 3) they knew it required specific strings and a specific tuning, but didn't have them in stock and wanted to make an easy sale to a kid who didn't know any better, and just slapped the 5-string set on there and sent him on his way. So anyway, my plan was to take the unopened set they sold him back to the music store, and demand either a set of correct strings or a refund. I realize though, that I could also perhaps buy additional individual strings, and just piece together a correct set from the ones I already have. Doing all this research, the most common gauges I see listed for a 4-string banjo.....and I made sure I was looking at a *tenor* (not plectrum) banjo, using the "normal" (not Irish or anything else) tuning..... are A - .009 D - .016 G - .023 C - .030 So here is my question: why the wide difference in gauges between the two instruments? For example, why is the G on the 5-string .016, when the exact same pitch on the tenor is recommended to be a .023 string? Why is the gauge for the lowest string (C or D) on the 5-string the same as G string on the tenor? I know the tenor has a shorter neck, but the tension of the strings he currently has on (in the open G tuning) do feel about what I call "medium" (at least what I would call "medium" on a guitar). I want to tune it correctly, using the recommended gauges, but sheesh, right now there's a .010 string for the high D, and I supposedly should use a .009.....just a hair thinner.....but take it up all the way to A?!! I'll lose an eye if I try to do that! And for the second-highest string -- right now, it's .012 tuned to B, and I should use a thicker(!) string (0.16) and take it up to D?? Yikes! Is this possible? Obviously I am missing something? Then I began thinking.....well maybe I should just keep it in the open G tuning simply because there would be more learning resources available to my nephew. That is, there are many more method books for 5-string than tenor, he could just learn to play from those books, and disregard the drone string stuff. I don't really like this idea, as I would want him to learn the instrument the way it was designed to be played, but I am just exploring my options. Any advice is greatly appreciated. To summarize: 1) What the heck was the music store doing? 2) Why the disparity in string gauges between tenor and 5-string? 3) Should I just leave it in open G tuning? Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks in advance for any expertise you give.
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Will Approved 
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I play a 19-fret tenor banjo, and being a guitar player, I tune it to DGBE. This will give you a short learning curve and immediate access to most guitar chords, and it can be played by picking the melody notes out of common guitar chord positions, albeit without the 2 bass strings. In this tuning, you can just use a regular set of strings for a 5-string banjo, without using the drone string. Because of the short neck, it would be safe to tune the high string up to E. Without a 5th string to worry about, a banjo capo can be used freely to play in any key. Historically, the tenor banjo was originally called the tango banjo, and it was specifically invented for mandolin players, hence, tuned in fifths. When 4-string banjos were dominant during the 1920's, the tenor's wide CGDA tuning interval allowed it to cut through loud brass bands, often played single string or chord melody style. The longer neck plectrum banjo was tuned to CGBD, and also used in Dixieland jazz, played chord melody style. As the 5-string banjo made a resurgence with the advent of bluegrass, the tenor became largely forgotten, which is why many music stores sometimes tune it wrong. In recent years, the short-neck 17-fret "Irish" tenor has found favor with Irish and Celtic bands, tuned one octave lower than a mandolin using special thick gauge strings (regular gauge strings would be too "floppy" without enough tension to stay in tune or sound good). I've had good success with DGBE tuning on the tenor banjo, since I play the banjo only occasionally to add tonal variety to a guitar-heavy jam session (which happens very often), or to be heard at an old timey jam (my fellow jammers are not fussy about what instruments I play, as long as I can play along well). By the way, DGBE tuning for banjos was called "Chicago tuning," and it is a legitimate tuning. Bob Shane of the Kingston Trio played plectrum banjo tuned that way; most famously, on the 1958 record, "Tom Dooley." Last edited on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 03:37 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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Charlie Approved 
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I also tune mine the same as Will does, DGBE and I also use the 5 string set of strings and it works great, Not only does this lend its self good for guitar chords , You can use the Baritone ukulele music and tabs with it, It has become quite poplar to do this, There is still alot of players that do use the CGDA tuning and I use to play mandolin that was tuned in 5th's also, But after changing tunings to the BGBE, I love that tuning best and can pick my melody from a enless supply of music. I hope this has helped answer your questions and good luck and hope he does well with it. Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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Charlie Approved
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Correction on my last statement, I put BGBE instead of DGBE Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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oofers Approved
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Thanks to all who responded. I really wanted my nephew to use the correct tuning as he begins to learn to play. However, the rationale behind using the DGBE tuning makes a lot of sense to me. He'll be able to use a set of normal 5-string banjo strings that he can get anywhere (since tenor strings are obviously hard to find), and can learn the instrument as guitar minus the 2 lowest strings. I'm so glad this unorthodox approach was suggested (although this tuning is apparently becoming more common, from what was suggested here). I never would have thought of it. Thanks again to all those who helped me figure this out.
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Charlie Approved
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If you had rather get tenor strings, There are alot of places that you can order from, One or two places are http://www.juststrings.com http://www.Elderly.com You will have quite a choice from them and I am sure there are others, But most stores don't stock for reason that not to much demand. Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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Will Approved
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oofers wrote: Thanks to all who responded. Here are some examples of what a DGBE-tuned tenor banjo sounds like (these were played by me and other band mates): Redwing http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/song_player.php?mode=song_hifi&type=song_id&a=true&id=9009 Take Me Out To The Ballgame (Dixieland style) http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/song_player.php?mode=song_hifi&type=song_id&a=true&id=1008 Father O'Flynn/The Dingle Regatta/The Tar Road To Sligo http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/song_player.php?mode=song_hifi&type=song_id&a=true&id=1126 Sloop John B http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/song_player.php?mode=song_hifi&type=song_id&a=true&id=1007 Jingle Bells http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/song_player.php?mode=song_hifi&type=song_id&a=true&id=3333 Last edited on Wed Feb 20th, 2008 04:11 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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Smiffy Approved
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Sorry to be a boor but I always thought that a tenor banjo was to a mandolin what a guitar was to the ukulele. The chord shapes are identical for guitar and uke. So with Tenor and mandolin. The violin 's tuned the same as mandolin. Upside down uke and guitar. The 5-string you can tune to your heart's content. All sorts of models and minors. Majors akimbo. Most people think there's only one sort of banjo. But if you think about it you can make a banjo out of just about anything with strings attached. ( this is not the opening for a joke....) If you want to play tenor banjo insist on tenor banjo strings. If the guy at the counter argues go to another shop. Good shops won't give you any problems, but lots of good advice. You'll go back. Time and again. Another satisfied customer. Once you get the right strings, tune your banjo and practise, you'll have fun. Find other people to play with, show off in public. It's a hoot. You'll get to like it after a while. Hugs
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Will Approved
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Smiffy wrote: Sorry to be a boor but I always thought that a tenor banjo was to a mandolin what a guitar was to the ukulele. A tenor banjo's tuning was originally CGDA, not GDAE. It's the same tuning interval, in fifths, but the chord shapes generate different chords than a mandolin. In recent years, the so-called Irish tenor banjo, with a shorter 17-fret neck, uses special thicker gauge strings to play one octave below mandolin tuning, in GDAE. GDAE tuning does not work well with a standard 19-fret tenor banjo because the strings will be too slack. Your point about 5-string banjos and the wide variety of tunings is well taken, but why limit the tenor banjo to just one tuning? The point of this thread is that tenor banjos can be more readily played by experienced guitar players using DGBE tuning, and regular tenor banjo strings are not of the correct gauge to accomplish this purpose. Last edited on Thu May 22nd, 2008 02:01 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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Smiffy Approved
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| ezFolk Forums > Banjo > General Banjo Topics > Tenor Tuning Trouble | |
