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ezFolk Forums > Banjo > Beginner Questions - Banjo > Rover RB-40 banjo is VERY heavy and poky - hurts in lap! Suggestions for newbie? |
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| Rover RB-40 banjo is VERY heavy and poky - hurts in lap! Suggestions for newbie? - Beginner Questions - Banjo - Banjo - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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Theresse Approved
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I know they have what they call an armrest, but what i need is something under the guitar that keeps it from poking into my leg so much! Have any of you heard of a way to fix this problem? Also, I'm concerned about the heaviness and how lopsided it feels because of it. I can play well enough and I'm not *that* much of a weakling  , but at least in the world of acoustic guitars, the better-quality guitars are usually lighter in weight. Is this heaviness a no-no for banjos?Thank you! Oh btw, the banjo has good action and I think good tone (at least it does to my relatively untrained banjo ears).
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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Okay, don't panic. This isn't as bad as all that. I'm not familiar with the RB 40, but I am guessing it must be a resonator banjo from your concern about the weight. First, any resonator banjo is going to be fairly heavy. That big wooden dish in the back adds a significant amount. Beefing up the rim to support that wooden dish adds mass. The rim of my old resonator banjo was actually metal! The tone ring (if any) will be metal, too. All of these add mass where a guitar has very little. But a banjo makes its sound from a fairly fast pop on the head, not from a sustained vibration of a wooden body. In a guitar, the back does play a real role in the sound, but with a banjo, not in the same way. Your primary solution is going to be a strap. Adjust it so it takes a little of the weight (a lot of can still be in your lap) and holds the neck exactly where you want it. You should have no effort involved in holding up the neck. Your left hand is only for fretting, not for support. The strap supports it. As for poking your leg, stand up. Lots of banjo players stand to play. In that case, of course, your strap will hold all the weight. If you really want to play sitting down, use the strap to keep it in place and put a thin cushion on your lap. Or position the pot right between your legs so the weight isn't digging into one leg only. And a lot of very good banjos do weigh a lot. I play a Deering Goodtime and part of why is that it weighs about 4 pounds. Every other banjo I have tried is twice the load or more. I'm not into that. The sound is not as refined or groovy as some of the more spendy (or cheaper, depending) banjos, but it all comes down to what is comfortable to me. That said, I no longer find resonator banjos to be a burden. A heavy banjo stays put when you have it where you want it. -Patrick
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cockneybanjo Approved 
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a lot of players wear a strap sitting down. Usually the strap is adjusted so that it slips over one shoulder only ( the right one ). Getting the posture right will also make a big difference to how it sits, as you are apparently a guitar player, you are probably holding it with the neck too low, a banjo neck should point up at about 45 degrees , past your left shoulder
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Will Approved 
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I own 2 resonator banjos; neither with a metal tone ring, but both significantly heavier than even my 12-string guitars. I imagine a fancier banjo with a tone ring will weigh as much or more than my electric guitar or autoharp, and for me, a strap is an absolute necessity when playing a banjo due to the added weight. Here is a really nice 2.5" wide all leather banjo strap that I found (I ordered 2) for $10: Perri's 2-1/2" Leather Banjo Strap http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Perris-212-Leather-Banjo-Strap?sku=364712  Last edited on Mon Apr 7th, 2008 01:56 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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Theresse Approved
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Sorry for the late reply! Thanks guys. I got a strap. Also found something I forgot I'd gotten which is a beginner's banjo DVD by Happy Traum. When I bought the strap, I picked up the following books: - How to Play the 5-String Banjo by Pete Seeger - Fun With the Banjo by Mel Bay - Banjo G Tuning Photo Chord Book by Mel Bay It wasn't until tonight that I looked more closely at the title of the latter book and wondered (still am wondering!) whether it was appropriate for my beginner, Old Time interest needs....what does it mean by G Tuning? I also see now that it says something about being for bluegrass? Should I be returning this book before it's too late to return it?! There is a local used banjo for sale that I might try to buy if the seller writes back saying it's in good shape. It's a Goodtime Special (with tone ring) going for $390.00 w/ case. Not to shabby if it's in good shape, right? I might ask if I could buy it for $375.00 assuming it isn't spoken for yet anyway. I held one the other day and liked the way it felt and played. I would then set out to sell my Rover and hope the difference doesn't end up being more than a couple of hundred bucks (since the Rover's barely played and is top of the line of the Rovers anyway). If this doesn't work, so be it!  Thanks again!
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Will Approved
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Theresse wrote: Sorry for the late reply! "G-tuning" means gDGBd, which generates an open G chord without fretting any of the strings. The short fifth string is tuned to a high-G. This is one of the most common tunings used for banjo.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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Theresse Approved
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Hmm...well I want to make sure I understand you correctly. It's one of the most common, but what exactly does that mean (sorry...it's really late here and I can barely keep my eyes open...brain...function...slowing...down...). What's the alternative to G tuning? Is G tuning just like in guitar, meaning that in guitar chord books there is no mention of G or any other "letter" cause all chords are based on pressing fingers down (fretting?) on what would otherwise be open strings/open chords I guess. Right? I don't know why I don't get it. And I'm sorry I can't seem to articulate what I'm trying to ask!  At any rate, thanks for writing back so quickly! 
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Will Approved
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Theresse wrote: Hmm...well I want to make sure I understand you correctly. It's one of the most common, but what exactly does that mean (sorry...it's really late here and I can barely keep my eyes open...brain...function...slowing...down...). Because a guitar (EADBGE) has a different standard tuning than a banjo (gDGBD), the names of guitar open string tunings would be a bit different. Like a banjo, there are many different alternate ways to tune a guitar. Open tunings are most often used to play in a particular style, such as Hawaiian slack-key, slide guitar, or lap steel guitar. On a guitar, an open-G tuning would be DGDGBD; while the 4 highest strings on the guitar would sound the same pitch as on a banjo, the guitar's 2 lowest strings would sound very different. There are many, many other kinds of tuning used to play 5-string banjo. There is a tutorial written for these right here at this forum: http://www.ezfolk.com/banjo/Tutorials/G_Tuning/g_tuning.html Last edited on Sat Apr 19th, 2008 02:46 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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"Thanks guys. I got a strap. Also found something I forgot I'd gotten which is a beginner's banjo DVD by Happy Traum. When I bought the strap, I picked up the following books: - How to Play the 5-String Banjo by Pete Seeger - Fun With the Banjo by Mel Bay - Banjo G Tuning Photo Chord Book by Mel Bay It wasn't until tonight that I looked more closely at the title of the latter book and wondered (still am wondering!) whether it was appropriate for my beginner, Old Time interest needs....what does it mean by G Tuning? I also see now that it says something about being for bluegrass? Should I be returning this book before it's too late to return it?!" "How to Play the 5-String Banjo" - The seminal banjo instruction book. Pete has said he would do it differently if he were writing it today, but it still gives you a good overview of the folk banjo. None of the songs are complete, and it can be a difficult book to use, especially if you have no music knowledge. Still, a must have for any Old Time or Folk banjo enthusiast. "Fun With the Banjo" - I haven't seen the book, but from the description on Mel Bay's site, it is for beginners to learn to strum chords and sing songs. The banjo is tuned to the "classical" C tuning (gCGBD) tuning, which means that the chords will be fingered differently from the positions shown in the Chord Book you also purchased. Depending on what you want to learn, this may or may not be an appropriate text. "Banjo G Tuning Photo Chord Book" - This is a reference book that will give you all the chords in all their different positions on the banjo neck in the standard G tuning of the banjo (gDGBD). I might keep this one, but I don't do a lot of up-the-neck chording in the style of music I play, so it would be a reference book only. View the Happy Traum tape, and it should give you an idea of what the banjo is capable of. Again, I haven't seen the tape, but the Homespun folk are very good at what they do. If you are interested in Old Time banjo, mainly clawhammer, I would suggest that you take a look at the Dan Levenson book/CDs & DVD for "Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch." This book is done mainly in a "Double C" tuning, which becomes a Double D tuning when capoed up 2 frets. He used this tuning because most of the music is OT fiddle tunes, which are primarily in the key of D, and the tuning facilitates playing along with fiddlers. Another alternative to Dan's books is the Ken Perlman "Clawhammer Style Banjo" book. He starts out in the standard G tuning, and takes you from strumming through the straight clawhammer "bum-ditty" into double- and drop-thumbing. The book becomes quite advanced when he starts getting into different timings for some Irish-influenced music like jigs and slipjigs, but the first few chapters will take you to a point where you can start playing a lot of stuff you find. The only caveate I have is that Ken is a little more "notier" in his style, in that he trys to keep as many melody notes going as possible, and it can become frustrating until you get the hang of it. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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Theresse Approved
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Will - thank you, I see - that makes sense. And thanks for the link! Brad - regarding the Seeger book, i haven't had time to look at it yet but I have *some* music background re. reading music...I play the piano and the guitar and used to read music when singing (in choirs) but I never became strong at reading music - especially piano music because of that darn bass cleff! However I have an exceptionally strong ear and ability to pick up a new instrument quickly (and learn strums and picking techniques quickly) so I at least have that to my advantage. I just this second got out my notes that were in my gig bag from when I first got the banjo; my mom and her banjo-playing friend (OT) bought if for me as a b-day gift and he gave me a lesson before he left, jotting down some notes for me. Here's what he wrote: "Your Banjo: Tuned in 'G' open tuning which is the common tuning in bluegrass and many old time mountain (frailing)/clawhammer) songs... A great deal of banjo music is played in "A" - capo at 2nd fret and rail road spike at 1st spike on 5th fret. In G ("A" wi capo) the open top string should always be the same a the bottom (1st) string held down at the first fret. Practice in the G open tuning but keep in mind there is another tuning called "double C" or "double D" with capo on 2nd fret. It is a great tuning for singing and frailing. Most bluegrassers never use it as their whole lives are in G. Tony Ellis is the exception." He then wrote the details about bum-tit-ty which I still remember. The other two books (including book w/ dvd) you recommended look interesting, thank you! (making an attempt to post pics of the Rover RB-40 that I'm interesting in selling in order to get a Goodtime (you can see how pokey it is! ;-) My friend's holding the banjo up for me to take the pics.) Attachment: banjo A.JPG (Downloaded 18 times)
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Theresse Approved
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Here's a side view... Attachment: Banjo B.JPG (Downloaded 17 times)
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Theresse Approved
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And finally, the rear view... Attachment: Banjo C.JPG (Downloaded 15 times)
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Okay - the Seeger book may be some help, then. It was written back when the 5-string was just coming into prominence in the "folk music" world, and was the first written for that type of music. It just isn't a really good first book nowdays. You might want to double-check what your friend wrote, though: "In G ("A" wi capo) the open top string should always be the same a the bottom (1st) string held down at the first fret." In G, the 5th string (the short one) sounded open should be the same tone as the first string fretted at the 5th fret to make a unison. The first string open is a D in standard tuning, so 5 frets makes it the same as the short 5th string G. Probably a misprint, so no biggy. And, you've probably already figured that out. Good luck - hope to hear some OT sounds from you soon! Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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Theresse Approved
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Thanks Brad. Well I admit I was having a hard time reading his writing so it's possible it was I who goofed up there. I'll look into it next time I get it out. The person selling the Goodtime Special banjo will take $375.00 and he says it's new and comes with Deering gig bag (not hard case, bummer!). He says he plays, owns and records on several instruments and he got it just for one particular recording session and that otherwise it hasn't been played at all. He sounds like a decent person over the phone and I'll be meeting with him tomorrow to possibly buy it if it looks clean and straight and sounds as good as or better than the Rover. So now I'm off to post pics of the Rover on Craigslist and see if I have ANY luck whatsoever in selling it!!! It's not so easy to sell a chinese-made banjo w/ a so-so reputation as it is to sell an American-made one with a very good reputation, of course! Wish me luck!
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| ezFolk Forums > Banjo > Beginner Questions - Banjo > Rover RB-40 banjo is VERY heavy and poky - hurts in lap! Suggestions for newbie? | |
