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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner |
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| Best dvd/books for clawhammer | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 04:45 pm |
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1st Post |
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dry cleaning guy Approved
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Hi. I'm a beginner. I've just worked my way through Patrick Costello's 'The How and the Tao of Old Time Banjo' and the video that goes with it. I've also tried a few of the tunes on the EZ Folk site but I find that I learn best when I can combine tab with an accompanying video. Any recommendations for the next dvd/book I should get?
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 08:11 pm |
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2nd Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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1. Clawhammer Banjo from Scratch - Dan Levinson. Book, CD and DVD (available seperately). This, to me, is one of the best resources available for clawhammer banjo. Dan starts off in Double C tuning, then moves it up 2 frets to double D. 12 tunes tabbed easy, medium and kitchen sink (incorporating all the frills and such - drop thumb, double thumb, hammer ons, pull offs, etc. I think I will use this as my main book if I pick up any students. 2. Clawhammer Style Banjo - Ken Perlman. Lots of help with exercises, the main drawback, I think, is that Ken is a "melodic clawhammer" player, in that he believes that all the notes the fiddler plays can and should be played on the banjo. The tunes can get involved, but lots of good tunes and tunings. Good, clear instruction. My copy says there is a VHS available, but you could check with Mel Bay and see if the video is available on DVD. You will find that there is a big difference between Patrick's style and what you will find in the other books. While Patrick doesn't concern himself with alternate tunings, most other methods will take you there, and into more tuneful playing. Patrick has excellent taste and skill, but comes at it from a different perspective. I think these are probably the three top methods available. Good luck. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 11:46 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Richard Hefner Administrator 
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Brad... have you seen David Holt's clawhammer banjo videos? I haven't seen any clawhammer videos at all so I can't compare but I've always liked David Holt's approach to teaching. I took a week-long workshop from him about 25 years ago and it was really good so I've always thought the videos are probably good as well.
____________________ Richard Hefner MP3 Page: http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/richardhefner Running Blog: http://old-runner.com |
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 01:46 am |
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4th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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No, I haven't seen any of his stuff, video or book. I need to take a look at some of it when I get a chance. There are also 2 DVDs by Bob Carlin "North Carolina Banjo" or "North Carolina Clawhammer Banjo" that are supposed to be good. I think they are also available from Mel Bay and him. I just recommend what I have seen. I did use the Carlin "Learn to Play Clawhammer Banjo" tapes, but I sent them overseas to a soldier in Iraq a year or two ago, I believe. I also recommend Dan Levenson's newest, "117 Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo" as a source of popular Old Time tunes. It's not really an instruction book, but it has an easy and a advanced tab plus notation for each tune, plus 2 CDs with all the tunes played through once. The tunes are also available on the fiddle as free downloads from Mel Bay. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 05:55 pm |
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5th Post |
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Patrick_Costello Approved
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Sadly, my approach to frailing banjo borders on a lost art. Levinson and Pearlman teach tunes. I teach people how to become musicians. It really is that simple. -Patrick Last edited on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 05:57 pm by Patrick_Costello |
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 08:56 pm |
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6th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Patrick - Glad to see you're still around from time to time. I hope your health issues are well under control. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:04 am |
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7th Post |
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dry cleaning guy Approved
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Hi Patrick, When I said I worked through your book I lied. I only got as far as your videos 1-4 would take me (page 65) and the rest I just read without really 'getting' it. I guess I learn best from videos rather than from a book. The ideal would be a teacher but I can't find one locally and I'm not sure if I could afford it anyway. I'm sorry to hear about your health issues and I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your work; it was your series of videos on You Tube that inspired me to go and buy a banjo. Thank you. Mike
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:17 am |
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8th Post |
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dry cleaning guy Approved
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Thanks for your advice. I will check out the resources you suggested. Why do other teaching resources use the alternate tunings? Mike
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 02:54 am |
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9th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Mainly because so many clawhammer banjo tunes are actually fiddle tunes, and lie better in some alternate tunings. "Soldier's Joy" is normally played in the key of D, and if you tune to Double C tuning (gCGCD) and capo up 2 frets, the tune lies under the fingers easily, mostly open strings or the second fret. That tuning is probably the most important for playing with a fiddler; then, some tunings were developed specifically for a certain tune. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 06:46 am |
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10th Post |
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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I really like the videos by David Holt. They include tablature booklets and have a very good demonstration of "dressed-up" tunes. I do think that it would have been a better presentation if he had played a very simple version first, then the dressed-up version. However, the fancy versions do introduce a variety of neat techniques and some sounds I had never used before. He does use several tunings, giving good introductions to some of the more old-timey sounds of the banjo. These tapes will not teach you how to be a masterful old-time banjo banger. They will give you some stellar examples of some great tunes and show you how to play note-by-note the same things. I urge you to mix it up a little and see what else you can come up with for a tune. Try to change it a bit from what David Holt does. You will learn a lot that way and make the tune your own. Trust me, he'd approve. On the subject of different tunings, there are good and bad things about them. On the down side, it is freaking annoying for people to wait while the banjo player retunes AGAIN. Of course, if they would stick to one key for a while, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But when they switch from G to D to A to D to A to G to Em, it gets a little annoying to have to wait while the goob with the banjo retunes his instrument, yet again. My experience is that I can sometimes get in by the second half of the playing, as the little group I jam with will repeat a tune several times. And when it is my turn to pick a tune, I just go with something in the same key as whatever I tuned to most recently. In defense of those other tunings, it can be pretty maddening to try to play certain tunes in G. Try playing something in the key of F, like Cumberland Gap. For that matter, tunes like Arkansas Traveller or Spotted Pony can also be pretty hard in G tuning. Using a tuning that really suits the key can make all the difference between a tune being easy and being an exercise in forcing it to fit. If you just want to chord along, the G tuning can work for any key and Patrick's book does a fine job of showing how to get the chords (many are closed-position chords) to play in any key. But if you want to play the melodies, the G tuning can be very limiting and hard to work around when in other keys. Why is this? Well, in the key-specific tunings, you will find that many of the notes you use most often are played on open strings. I'm not kidding! You will play a given string open (non-fretted) generally more often than you will play it fretted. I am morally certain that the tunings are an artifact of fretless banjo playing where less guessing as to precise placement of the finger for a note is better. Simple chords are part of this, too. You can play many chords with two fingers in the key-specific tuning, where you might need all four in G tuning. The F chord is a good example, as it uses all four fingers in G, but only two in Double C. I was really reluctant to try alternate tunings for a long time. I woud avoid it as much as possible, even refusing to learn a tune if I could not reasonably play it in G tuning. Finally, I decided to try it. It sure made things work better. Now, I think Double C is a more entertaining tuning than G. Even the same chords sound very different. The C chord is richer and fuller and more macho. The F chord is more playful. The G chord is edgier. I don't like playing in C with G tuning. I really like the How and Tao approach, but that insistence on staying in G tuning is limiting. I will tell anyone that Patrick Costello is a heck of a generous guy for sharing all that he does. But I have to disagree with him on this point. Sorry, man. I love your work and this does not invalidate any of it, I just have to have those other tunings. -Patrick
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 10:56 am |
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11th Post |
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Patrick_Costello Approved
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Mike, Trust me, I knew you hadn't worked your way through the book. Nobody has yet because there is about twenty years worth of information stuffed into The How and the Tao of Old Time Banjo. See, that book was written as a handout for an after school banjo club. I wanted to give the kids something they could go back to from time to time over the years. It's not something you sit down with and pound through in a weekend. Frailing is an art - and as such it is something you develop over a long period of time. Right now, hopefully, you should have the basic frailing strum down and a couple of chords. If that is the case what you need to do is start singing folk songs and using the banjo to play rhythm through the chord progressions. See, the banjo is not a melodic instrument and frailing is not a melodic technique. Our strong point is rhythm. You've got to master rhythm before you play melody. Go play and sing. Find some people to jam with (a real jam, not some old time music cluster-pluck). Practice the basics. You don't need videos. You don't need another book. You have more information right now than I ever had at one time when I was learning. Use it. Stick to the basics and give yourself time to grow. -Patrick
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 06:39 pm |
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12th Post |
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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I'm going to add just a little bit to what Patrick said above. If you can't find a local jam, can't manage to start one, and can't find anyone else to play with (not very likely, but I had trouble with this so I know it can be hard), at the very least you can sit down with a book of songs and play rhythm and sing by yourself. If you have kids, sing for them. It really makes a huge difference. If I had followed the "chords and rhythm first" approach instead of jumping right in with melodies (which are a whole lot more fun when you first start out, I agree), I would be a whole lot more of a musician than I am. Those melodies are not the end-all of banjo playing. For solo work, they are pretty important, unless you open your mouth and just sing. Your voice can be the melody line and your banjo the chords and rhythm and you will be doing fine. We all know it isn't easy. But it does get easier with practice. And with some experience playing and singing, the melody lines of other instruments are not so hard to accompany when you finally do find someone to jam with. There are loads of books with many songs that only use 3 chords and are banjo-friendly. My two favorites are Tim Jumper's Banjo Picker's Songbook and Patrick Costello's Outlaws and Scalawags. Both are meant for banjo frailers. One is about $25, the other only seems to be available as a free download (though if I ever see a print copy available on Patrick's site, I would buy it - hint, hint). I would love to have a CD for each of these books that plays once through the melody line of each song and then has someone play and sing just the first verse and chorus (if applicable) of each song. That would help me a lot to get the melody in my head so I can start to play. However, I am aware of the enormity of such an undertaking, so I am certainly not complaining about the quality of either book. The real trick is to keep at it. By all means, do learn some fancy solos. Learn a load of old-time melodies that let you lead off at a jam. But the most important thing really is to be able to play along with everyone else. And that means knowing your chords and having your rhythm rock-solid. The videos will get you started, but it isn't practical to look for a video for every song you might want to sing. Just set aside some time to bang through a chord progression and sing. One of Patrick's books has a very good discussion about what to do when you really don't know the melody but you do have the chords. It actually works, too. I'll let him say which book it is, because I really can't remember and don't want to spend the time looking it up right now. And keep having fun with it. -Patrick
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 07:58 pm |
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13th Post |
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Patrick_Costello Approved
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When you start jamming the big thing to avoid is the situation where the group has a set list of tunes in specific tunings that they play every week. Folk music is (when you're not faking it) an improvisational art form - and the place where you learn how to improvise is in a jam. You sit down with a group of musicians and learn how to flow with the music. That's the difference I was talking about earlier. Dan & Ken know tunes, but if you drop them in a setting where they have to improvise things won't go so smoothly. Because they can't improvise they teach everything in terms of rote memorization. Every song is in a specific key, in a specific tuning and God help you if you call out a tune in the wrong key. So for a jam, just find some everyday people. You'll learn more about music knocking out Hank wiliams songs with an old guitar player or splaying along with the organist at your local church than you ever will at an old time or any other genre-specific jam. If you can frail a 4/4 rhythm and go from open G to C and D7 you have enough to play and sing thousands of songs. Go sing them. If you do that and stay away from the tab-monkey nonsense and get used to working with the structure of music (rhythm and chords) the melodic stuff will come along on it's own down the road. It's not something you can force. It's a process that you have to go through. -Patrick
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| Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 01:12 am |
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14th Post |
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dry cleaning guy Approved
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Thanks guys. I never imagined my post would get such a great response and generate such disparate opinions! I appreciate all of them. I'm probably going to try a dual approach following Patrick's advice about keeping it simple, developing rhythm and singing along but at the same time giving into the temptation to try some more melodic stuff. I particularly liked David Holt's video when I previewed a bit of it. I run my own business and work 70-80 hours a week so its going to be a bit tricky to get together with anybody for a jam session. Basically I play for 10-15 minutes in the evening before I go to bed. Thanks again. Mike
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| Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 06:03 pm |
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15th Post |
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Tombo Approved
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No love for Wayne Erbsen? I found his book, "Clawhammer Banjo For the Complete Ignoramus!" to be very good as well as entertaining.
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| Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 11:37 pm |
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16th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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I just got a look at his Clawhammer book today. It is as good as his Old Time Fiddle Ingoramus book. Great for beginners. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 05:55 pm |
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17th Post |
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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Geez, Patrick, don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel! I am going to jump in and defend Dan, though. Seriously, my own understanding of improvising and developing my own versions of tunes is very strongly influenced by Dan Levenson's Clawhammer Banjo from Scratch book. I don't work through all the exercise versions of the tunes, but I will play the simplest one until I pretty much know it, then I will noodle with the "Kitchen Sink" version, looking for some possible alternative choices and that sort of gives me a bracket for what I can do without losing the structure of the tune. Eventually, I have something close to a version of the tune that I can play easily. I have found that with my local "cluster-pluck" (which is plenty of fun, thank you, and a very welcoming group of people who are willing to put up with a self-taught banjo beater who isn't used to playing well with others yet), my experience working through Dan's book makes it a whole lot easier to adapt to the way other people are playing around me. I have not really used any of Ken's books, so can't comment. I have tried, but I don't click with how he presents the information. Different learning styles. However, I severely doubt that either of these musicians would have all that much trouble fitting in at a jam, even where they don't know the tunes. Patrick, you are a good player and a good teacher. You don't need to run these other guys down because you don't agree with how they present their music lessons. That's not cool, man. Oh, and as for Erbsen, I think he is fantastic for a beginner's survey of the instrument. He knows he is writing for closet players and that most of them are going to be learning in the woodshed, as it were. That is so totally appreciated. His original book is still my favorite, but out of print. I managed to get a copy and I just love it. He covers several tunings and has both melodies and songs you can sing. I also find the old, idiosyncratic tablature system to be very handy for quickly noting ideas I want to come back to later. As a parent, I am often interrupted while trying to do things (I've had to stop typing this message three times so far due to the kids) and having a simple and easy way to note my musical ideas is a nice thing. I also have his Bluegrass Banjo for the Complete Ignoramus. I use it for a book of tunes for clawhammer in G. I like it for that. His simple tab method is meant to give you a framework that can be filled in with any of several rolls or pinches (again, trying to encourage improvisational decoration, even if he gives you a skeletal tune like Dan does). In many cases, I just throw in a bum-ditty where he leaves space for a roll. The tabs in this book work well that way. I do have his fiddle book as well and I totally agree with Brad. It is the simplest way I have found to get folks making something approaching music on a fiddle. I love it. though, to be honest, I don't have time for fiddle practice enough to get anywhere with it. I'm learning bagpipes (there's an instrument that has a very formal tradition of just playing melody in a rigidly defined way, down to the specific grace notes used never varying in a particular setting - probably an artifact of pipe band playing), banjo, and practicing Anglo-Saxon lyre and a little bit on the guitar. I just don't have time for fiddle, even though I really want to add that. Priorities. Okay, I'm going to stop now. And maybe go practice some music. -Patrick
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| Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 07:38 pm |
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18th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Patrick- I've learned to ignore Patrick's rantings, I think he does it to try to get people pumped up. He's done the same thing on several lists. He has his ideas about music, and we have ours, I like his How and Tao books, and use them as basic intros into the banjo, since they get people frailing and singing along, which is important. I know Dan can hold his own, he attended our second OT Music Circle and had a great time! Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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