 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ||||
| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner | Page: 1 2   |
|
|||||||||||||
| 1st banjouke comes with message | Rate Topic |
| Author | Post |
|---|
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 12:09 am |
|
1st Post |
|
sano Approved 
|
I got my 1st banjouke today, It's the one on the left in my avatar pic. Don't know what it is except that it's English made and old and plays well. Love the sound though I will be making a mute clip for the bridge so that my wife keeps loving it too. Man I'm having a hard time putting this banjouke down. It really feels well-played and well-loved. I fact, its hardly noticeable, but someone scrawled "I love you" on the skin, maybe in blue pastel crayon, who knows how many years ago. I wonder about the story behind that.... On another topic, I'm wondering whether there are any wooden uke designs that lend themselves to floating bridges and tailpieces. I've only seem one or two on the net with them. Jazz ukes? Is it just because of higher string tension that mandolins have tailpieces? But then why not all hollowbodied guitars? I'm sure the soundboard picks up more with an attached bridge, but how would it sound otherwise, I wonder?
____________________ sano |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 02:27 am |
|
2nd Post |
|
Will Approved 
|
Floating bridges are found on banjos because there is no way to fix a bridge onto the skin of the drum head without damaging it. On wooden body instruments, floating bridges tend to be found on arch-top instruments, where the top is not flat; this includes hollow-body guitars, mandolins, fiddles, etc. The tail piece, usually a piece of metal with "fingers" for attaching loop-ended strings, is then necessary in order to anchor the strings. I've seen a number of very old flat-top guitars (especially 12-strings) that were made with a metal tail piece.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 03:29 am |
|
3rd Post |
|
sano Approved
|
Yes. I get what you're saying about archtops. A while back I mentioned to you about my first archtop guitar and the frustration I had not knowing exactly where to set the bridge (long before the days of the internet and helpful forums llike this). But then as you say, once in a while you'll find a flat top with a tailpiece/floating bridge. I'm wondering about what the tonal difference might be. One advantage of the tailpiece is that you never have to worry about popping a bridge or having to extra brace the soundboard for strength rather than tone. Does a fixed bridge make better contact than a floater? If not, why not more floaters and the advantage that comes with them?
____________________ sano |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 01:32 pm |
|
4th Post |
|
Will Approved
|
It seems to me that a floating bridge is almost always higher in profile than a fixed bridge. A fixed bridge, being flat-bottomed and glued in place, might have better contact than a floating bridge. It's not easy to directly compare the tonal differences between floating and fixed bridges because the instrument bodies associated with each type are usually different. On guitars, floating bridges are found usually on archtop guitars with F-holes, which give a more percussive, penetrating tone (remember that the acoustic guitar was, back then, strictly a rhythm instrument trying to cut through a loud band) than the flat top guitars with a round sound hole. Even if you found a really old flat top guitar with a tailpiece to compare with a modern fixed bridge flat top, it might be its cheap plywood top that is chiefly responsible for the tone, not the floating bridge and tailpiece. Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 01:35 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 02:11 pm |
|
5th Post |
|
sano Approved
|
Good points. Thank you Will. Still, if one designed a uke with an extra thin soundboard and/or wished to brace primarily for tone rather than strength, the floater/tailpiece might be an option. Let the end block take most of the strain. There would still be downward force, but not nearly as much as when the bridge is fixed. I'm asking these questions as I'm "renovating" some old ukes, some laminate and some not. On one, I've popped off the fixed bridge (deliberately) with a mind to upgrade it. I'm now faced with some options. I've got a number of ukes, old and new (no, I'm not going to be popping bridges off all of them!) that give me reference, and I see subtle design differences among them. I'm trying to understand the implications of these differences and distinguish what's merely aesthetic from what makes a tonal difference. And the floating bridge/tailpiece style is intriguing...
____________________ sano |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 03:41 pm |
|
6th Post |
|
Will Approved
|
Getting the parts that are right for the job may be problematic. It's easy to get a floating bridge designed for say, a tenor banjo, or a mandolin (with 8 grooves), and a metal tail piece. However, that style of bridge will have a higher profile than is optimum if you tried to adapt them to a flat-top uke, resulting in a much higher string action, because the neck angle is different on a flat top uke vs. a mandolin, or a banjo. Your options for lowering the string action may then be limited, since you can't really trim down that style of bridge without compromising its structural integrity. The 1920's era LaPacifica banjo uke that I play (on loan to me from my Loose Change bandmate) has a floating tenor banjo bridge on it because the original bridge was lost long before it was purchased through eBay. The instrument is basically unplayable past about the 5th fret because of the extremely high string action caused by the height of the bridge. Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 03:50 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 03:53 pm |
|
7th Post |
|
HowlinHobbit Approved 
|
Will wrote: The instrument is basically unplayable past about the 5th fret because of the extremely high string action caused by the height of the bridge. Sandpaper.
____________________ Howlin' Hobbit Got Uke? MySpace ezFolk UkeLand |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 05:24 pm |
|
8th Post |
|
Philj200 Approved 
|
Thanks Will for pointing this topic out to me. If I may butt in with a few suggestions and an assumption. Assumption: Any Uke in question will have a flat face. If not, we're into a whole range of instrument design esoterica. Okay, so if the instrument has a flat face, and we're dealing with an existing instrument. The first thing to do is remove the existing bridge. A heated, old (and dull) butter knife shold do it. The tacit understanding that the face may need to be refinished should be mentioned. But this also give you the opportunity to shave down the face and reduce it's thickness. This may sweeten the tone and produce cleasrer highs. Don't reduce the face too much or the bindings may separate. We're talking 1/32" or so. Bridge and tail piece: Get or make a tenor banjo tail piece. Try Elderly instruments for older designs which tend to be smaller. I would get the best tenor banjo bridge I could afford if I were doing this. If your uke doesn't have a base pin (for a shoulder strap), you'll need one as well. The action may be high. Or not. You can reduce the height of a bridge by sanding the base of the bridge, the legs. Just do it evenly. Avoid cutting deeper grooves. I think that between the thickness of the fretboard and the height of the strings, the action may be just fine. Down the road, if the look of a banjo bridge bothers you, consider a mandolin bridge. You may want to remake to the top section to show only four strings (not eight). Check for bridge height before you invest any money. You can't return a customized bridge. Interesting project: If you've ever refinished an entire instrument, or a major part of pne, you know how much patience, sanding, dusting and patience is necessary. When you're ready, you can purchase refinishing laquers in spray cans. This will save you the trouble of finding an oil-less air brush equipment. You can't use an automotive air compressor. You will (should) sand with wet/dry paper between coats of laquer. And finish by buffing out the surface with a soft bonnet. Of course, do the refinishing BEFORE you put the bridge and tail piece on the instrument. Other than the buffing, you could do the whole job with hand tools. DO NOT USE A POWER SANDER unless you are really good. Hope this helps.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 05:42 pm |
|
9th Post |
|
Will Approved
|
HowlinHobbit wrote: Will wrote:The instrument is basically unplayable past about the 5th fret because of the extremely high string action caused by the height of the bridge. That's easier said than done... the action is so high that it would require sanding down the feet that stabilize the bridge (rendering the bridge unstable and useless).  Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 05:42 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 06:19 pm |
|
10th Post |
|
sano Approved
|
Thanks Phil. I'm on my 5th renovation, and present uke is a 70s Japan made laminate (sold on ebay as "solidtop" -- boy I'm learning. Anyway, I take laminates for what they are, limited in tone but durable, and I'm learning they can be made bright and loud, which is alright by me). I've done extensive sanding as the top layer was quite thick and the top now has a much better tone when I tap it. I want to try a tailpiece for the reasons already mentioned, but also because it will allow me to experiment with different bridges which I'll probably make on my own, unless I can find a local supplier. I've got shop experience and love working with wood. I wanted to try guitar repair once upon a time, but I find the uke to be perfect for playing around with, and of course for playing. I'll look out for a tenor banjo tailpiece. Oh, and about the string height issue, it shouldn't be a problem as I'm thinking of laminating on a new fretboard. I'm refretting most of my older ukes.
____________________ sano |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 06:19 pm |
|
11th Post |
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Will, what is the inside of your LaPacifica like? Can I assume a wooden truss rod with a cam-plate assembly held in place and tensioned by a single machine-bolt? You've probably tried to adjust the bolt and if the action syill didn't improve, did you try shimming the top edge of the neck where it meets the rim? I've had good luck using leather shims. They last forever and becasue they give a little and are compressable, it is possible to shim just a little. Sometimes that's all it takes. Leather shims are easily available. I cut mine out of old shoe tongues. A half-inch wide by the width of the neck might be all you need. If not enough, fold it in half and try again. My 1920 Gibson has had a leather shim in it for forty years and the action is perfect (or I'm very used to it.) Re original discussion: Are there arch-top ukes. I've never seen one or heard of it. But it's not my instrument, so I don't know.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 06:26 pm |
|
12th Post |
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Sano stop! Before you thin a wood-laminate (AKA plywood)remember that the inner ply(ies) are not meant to be seen and are made from wood whose grain is at 90 degrees to the face surface. And it's very likely a cheaper, softer wood. I really don't think going any deeper than the finish is safe. You mentioned you've done this before. So you understand why it raises warning flags to me. Can you see the plies are the sound hole to be sure this instrument also has a thicker face-ply?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 06:30 pm |
|
13th Post |
|
sano Approved
|
I've come across one or two in my google picture searches with tailpieces, though I didn't save the pages. I wasn't paying much attention to them at the time. I don't think either were archtops. They may likely be one offs made by guys like me or else just for the novelty and a way to use up some spare parts. But there are archtops, but I haven't actually had one in my hands to examine closely. Any archtops I've seen have fixed bridges. Check this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ARCHTOP-TENOR-Jazz-SUNBURST-F-hole-UKULELE-by-KALA_W0QQitemZ230285751498QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230285751498&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
____________________ sano |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 06:42 pm |
|
14th Post |
|
sano Approved
|
OK, I've stopped, but don't worry. I watch with every stroke of sandpaper and I'm outdoors where the light is bright. I know the hazards of oversanding laminates. Yes, I can clearly see the strata of the plys. I'm reminded though of a fellow somewhere on the web who wanted to "Lennonize" his sunburst Epiphone Casino and sanded the whole top layer of laminate off! It really looked appalling. Made me want to laugh and cry. No, it wasn't me. I'm a sensitive woodworker with the patience of Job and a bit of extra time on my hands. But please, don't hold back your comments and advice. I've got so much to learn in the field of luthery and appreciate all the feedback. Cheers!
____________________ sano |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 07:47 pm |
|
15th Post |
|
Will Approved
|
Philj200 wrote: Will, what is the inside of your LaPacifica like? Can I assume a wooden truss rod with a cam-plate assembly held in place and tensioned by a single machine-bolt? You've probably tried to adjust the bolt and if the action syill didn't improve, did you try shimming the top edge of the neck where it meets the rim? Because the banjo uke isn't mine (it's on long-term loan to me from its owner while we're both in the same band because he doesn't play uke), I don't have permission to make any such modifications, and for the infrequent occasions that I do play the banjo uke, it works for first position chords. I did get John's permission to replace the original friction tuning pegs (which were stripped) with geared tuners. Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 07:48 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 09:10 pm |
|
16th Post |
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Sano: That archtop on eBay is a cutie! Will: Then the problem is solved. If playing the LaPacifica gets to the point where it annoys you, give it back.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 01:52 am |
|
17th Post |
|
SnakeOiler Approved 
|
sano wrote: Love the sound though I will be making a mute clip for the bridge so that my wife keeps loving it too.I slip a playing card or two under the bridge for a good muted tone on my Maybell. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the old eardrums. I have one of those Kala Archtop Tenors and I've been wondering about the fixed v floating bridge thing since my archtop guitars have floating bridges. I have been wondering if I could convert it, but I fingerpick a lot to which a fixed endpiece/bridge seems more suitable. Sonntag Guitars of Germany makes a couple of archtop Ukes and they use a floating bridge/endpiece system. I'd love to get one but they are way expensive. http://www.sonntag-guitars.com/english/Archtops/Jazz-Uke_acoustic.html 
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 06:36 pm |
|
18th Post |
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Interesting site. Did you see that D'Aquisto arch top guitar... wow! I wonder if they would sell uke tail pieces and floating bridges.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 10:27 pm |
|
19th Post |
|
sano Approved
|
Yeah, that Sonntag archtop is a little beauty though I'd like smaller headstock, like a banjouke, and what the heck, planetary tuners. Really mix it up. Man I love archtops. I start feelin reckless just looking at em. I'm looking now for bridge replacements for my 2 old banjoukes (yes, plural as of today) and am considering 3 legged ones with ebony tips. Sound good to you guys? Don't really know myself but will go for the more contact option I suppose....
____________________ sano |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 02:54 pm |
|
20th Post |
|
Will Approved
|
I have the 3-legged style, ebony-capped tenor banjo bridge on the 1920's era banjo uke that's on loan to me. It's really too high for such a short scale instrument, but they are the only style of bridges readily available for a 4-string banjo, and filing it down would render the bridge useless.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Current time is 10:12 pm | Page: 1 2 |
| ezFolk Forums > Ukulele > General Ukulele > 1st banjouke comes with message | Top |
