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| Quality Control/What's going on? - General Ukulele - Ukulele - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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BanjoDave Approved
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Because I'm in the market for a Concert Uke I have been doing some searches lately and visiting various websites, Blogs, and found out some interesting things - some of which has left me a little disappointed. Basically my disappointment is realizing that just by paying a substantial amount of money to get a Uke which not only you have researched in depth, but have finally decided on, can turn out rather poor. I know and realize that anything and everything can go wrong, so an instrument is no exception. But my shock value increases when well known brands have been found to have buzzing, poorly finished bodies, unplayable high action, etc,etc. I suspect that mass produced Uke's like the Flea are made and thrown out the door ready to sell, which incidentally I could not find a bad word said about these which came as the surprise of my search. However, are not Uke's ranging around $700 - $1000 tested before they are put on shelves? How can these high end Uke's have anything wrong with them especially buzzing? Has the quality control now gone out the window?
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UkeForever Approved 
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Well...I know this is going to sound like a "justification," but here goes: 1) It takes about the same amount of labor and effort to produce a ukulele as a guitar. Granted, because of the "plain" tradition, ukulele makers can get around some of those costs by offering little or no adornment--binding, headplates, etc, on their ukes. Companies like Kamaka, KoAloha, and Kanile'a make extraordinarily affordable and wonderful instruments in the $400-800 range. I'm not saying that you should expect problems, but since these very small factories (by modern standards) produce so many of these "entry level" instruments--and that's what they are--one should at least expect some variation. I mean, would you expect Martin Style 45 quality for under $1000? (I'm assuming we speak guitar here.) Definitely not. Sit down and listen to name brand guitars under $1,000, and you'll generally hear something with unimpressive/unresponsive sound and some playability flaws. I'll even admit that my Larrivee OM-03RE, which I got for under $1,000 has one or two "issues." While it sounds great, the fret ends are not dressed perfectly. (About 60 minutes of skilled labor can fix that problem, of course.) As far as looks, the 03 has a flat finish, and the woods are rather plain. Then I take a look at my "entry level" Kanile'a: Kanile'a Photo That was $500 with a case. The thing is, a mere $1000-1500 jump in price will get you the instrument of your dreams (and try doing that with a guitar): Laughlin 3K The Laughlin was meticulously made, and yet there was an ever so slight buzz on the second string. I took it back to the luthier, and he leveled the frets so now it is the perfect instrument it is supposed to be. Perfect for me, that is. 2. This leads me to point #2. Point #2 is that every player has different tolerances. I like a higher action because my hand strum is fairly heavy. That means for my playing style, I'm susceptible to fret buzzing no matter what, and especially if action is low. Some folks can't stand playing an instrument if the strings aren't practically touching the fretboard. 3. My third point is that with the exception of a couple of brands, even the overseas manufacturers have responded to ukulele consumer's two dictates: a) all solid woods, and b) build lightly. The tops on the first Bushman Jenny ukueleles (manufactured overseas) were so thin that the tops bellied slightly (but remained stable). And a beautiful sound came out of those instruments. Two modern manufacturers, KoAloha and Kanile'a have invented radical new bracing structures so that they could brace even more lightly than before to produce amazing sounds. Classic Martin uke tops are very thin too, and braced just so. This is where the ukulele world has departed from the guitar world. (Although we're seeing several overseas manufacturers like Blueridge and Morgan Monroe, who are beginning to brace lightly to get that Martin sound.) Generally beginner guitars have more laminates and are overbraced because it is assumed they need to be more sturdy for new players. Ukulele manufacturers have given consumers professional builds for excellent acoustic sound for very low sums of money (compared to the guitar world). But that means we inherit some of the same problems as expensive guitar owners--humidity changes, for example, can ruin an instrument, or at least throw it out of whack for awhile. Solid wood, especially thin solid wood, likes to move. _____________________ The nice thing is, the more you pay for an instrument, the more a company will (should) do for you. I cannot say that the issue with the Kanile'a in the other post is anything short of an anomaly. The ones I've seen over the past several years have all been impeccable instruments, and they just got better sounding with the new bracing style. If you're looking for a good hog concert in the Martin style, I like Kiwaya. (I don't like the tie bridge, but oh well.) I also like Kanile'a's concerts. They sould like little classical guitars (good classical guitars). KoAloha's concerts are workhorses, and pretty nice sounding too (but in a different way--watch Jim Beloff's second teaching video--he uses a KoAloha concert). I think with the brands that command more of a premium, the quality control is much better. But with delicate wooden instruments, there will always be variation in sound and pieces. Find something you like, and go with it. Communicate. Ask questions first, and use a reputable dealer/seller. Let him or her know what your tolerances are and you'll have a better chance of finding a winner. Or just bid on the next Martin concert that comes down the eBay pike. You'll be sure to love that one, but it'll cost (and there's a reason for that cost). Last edited on Tue May 20th, 2008 05:45 am by UkeForever ____________________ Don't let the door hit 'ya where the good Lord split 'ya. John Rockwell's Crazy Songs 
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musicguymic Approved
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I agree with ukeforever on his assessment. No ukulele manufacturer making higher end ukes is trying to send buzzing crap out the door. However that said...problems can occur with instrruments shipped from hawaii where they are made to vastly different climates..more and more humdity controlled enviroments etc are being added which never where before. The number of ukulels made in Hawaii or setup here and then sold to the mainland has increased exponentially in the last few years and manufacturers are now dealing with climate differences they never had to before where most were sold here only in hawaii. The interent has provided along with a info explosion a explosion of sales worldwide in ukuleles. Just a feww years ago a Kanilea Koaloha or Kamaka in France was unheard of. Now they get shipped there daily. You now have warranties that are honored and followed up on. on action..yes riducoulsly high should never happen but also ones interpretation is also comes in. I have experienced ukuleles that were set 2.25mm at the twelfth fret and the person said it was too high...I have seen that same instrument sent out and then said to be perfect. i have seen the same setting being deemed to low for fingerpicking....and as I have mentioned we are starting to find that in setting ukes now to a more playable perfect action string limitations are coming into play Some strings cannot handle a 2mm or 2.25 string action no matter how perfect the fretbaord is leveled and dressed... the arc of the strings swing is just too big. Many factors also affect this fret size, height, and contour also make some differences. Anyone wonder how many guiatrs ion the 500 to 1000 range have a buzz or string action complaint. Its the same all over...
____________________ WOW I got another Uke!!!! |
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BanjoDave Approved
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I can understand and appreciate your replies, and all of it makes sense. However, I will always have an issue with any product that cannot do what its meant for no matter how low cost it is. If Uke’s like the Flea are churned out in their thousands and up till now I have not seen or heard one that’s not up to speed, for a reasonable cost, then something made which is 3 times as expensive sounds awful, there is no justification in expecting the consumer to accept that. Or if there is and every now and again a bad one is made (because of the fluctuation in woods etc) then surely its reasonable to assume that the badly sounding one is recognized as being faulty and in turn not sold. If everything is perfect after its made and by many reasons over a period before sale it turns bad then surely that is recognized by the retailer and not sold? A good retailer in doing the basic things before its sold to someone should pick up on it having a bad buzz or whatever shouldn’t he? A pal of mine has bought 2 KoAloha Uke’s - 1 standard and 1 pineapple. Both were awful. In these days a heavy market is in the mail order business mainly because many Uke’s are not accessible any other way. On seeing these Uke’s first hand when they arrived it was plain to me that they had come into the retailer and then shipped out without any thought as to how they played etc. This is not good especially as the manufacturer loses credibility in their product rather than the retailer. Being in the retail business myself for nearly 30 years, I accept without question that certain things do not come up to scratch and have to be addressed. But that is after sales and not before. I can’t see any justification in sending something out to be sold without seeing first if it up to standard and in turn sold to the consumer without being checked over. Some issues regarding body finishing is not acceptable at all in my opinion. If we venture into the world of Uke’s made in say China for instance then there will always be a reasonable amount of issues the same as everything else. But my main point is Uke’s made and sold that are 1 step in price away from having one made by a Luthier. In this region it is reasonable to assume that you are getting a quality product purely because you have paid a premium price. If these Uke’s are not quality controlled then we are getting in a sorry state and some of that is down to the retailer selling it on to the consumer because they have not taken the time to check it over first.
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Neal Approved 
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I have to agree with the previous 2 posters on this Dave, sometimes things slip, but not as often as the topic suggests. You mentioned Fleas and Flukes. I've had one solid body Fluke that was simply a piece of crap, action waay too high, intonation off, not enough left on the saddle to bring down. This was the first I'd seen like that, but it happens. I haven't heard a lot of horror stories about what you're referring to, but of all the ukes sold in a given year, to have as few horror stories(horror to some) as I've read is a pretty good indication that quality control is still there. Most of the stories are action related, fixed easy by a competent luthier, or shipping related, instrument damaged in transit. Most will ship with the action on the high side, it's easier to lower than to raise, unless specified to the dealer that will set it up for you. All the sellers that I deal with offer unconditional money back to unsatisfied customers. Shipping back, except in the event of dealer's fault, is usually paid by the buyer. On most of the instruments I've recieved via the mail, I've had to invest a dollar or two to make it right for me, I expect this. But if it had a twisted neck, or separating bridge, etc., I'd send it back if I felt it would be a waste of time/money to fix locally. And I have, with no problems or complaints from the seller, with shipping refunded. If it cost 100 dollars, I'd expect 4 strings and a fretted fretboard, if it cost 1500 I'd expect to take it to my luthier to customize it for my playing style, but would expect the frets, finish, general soundness of the instrument to be on par. While I haven't had to do this with every fairly expensive uke I've purchased, it wouldn't surprise or bother me to do so.
____________________ http://ezfolk.com/audio/NealPaisley http://www.indiependencemusic.net/paisleylawler http://www.myspace.com/nealpaisley |
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BanjoDave Approved
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I can see where your coming from Neal, but if we are talking about $1,500 I personally would have one made which is what I am considering right now. Not that I am anywhere near a professional, but because of the stories I am learning about for "off the peg Uke's". I don't think its right that whatever the degree of price range a Uke would have to be "put right" after sales by yourself. The obvious scenario of price = whatever quality it is, is acceptable because the old adage of what you pay for is what you get. But what's the point of buying a washing machine for instance for a low price if you have to put it right before you can use it? Price does equal quality and everything is relative. Like all things price will go up. But at the stage now to pay $1000 should be a good price point (at the moment) to expect that what you receive is set up and been checked. I know that certain things like actions are fickle to the individual, but the Uke as a whole should be playable. I have even heard about a person who received her Gstring (no pun intended) with a broken tuner peg. I do accept that quality control (or lack of it) happens straight from the manufacturer, but cannot accept it when bought from a retailer. As for retailers who operate on ebay (because obviously sales will increase by volume compared to a shop) they have a greater responsibility to make sure everything is checked over first - something which is not done all the time as a recent thread on here suggests.
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Neal Approved
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BanjoDave wrote: I can see where your coming from Neal, but if we are talking about $1,500 I personally would have one made which is what I am considering right now. Not that I am anywhere near a professional, but because of the stories I am learning about for "off the peg Uke's". Your last line- yes, they have a greater responsibility, but as humans, the opportunity for error is always there. This is why you have a warranty, and why you'd get no complaints from a good seller about fixing it. Oh, yes, if I paid 1000 for a uke, I'd expect it to be playable, frets nicely dressed, instrument sound as a 1999 dollar  , but again, it wouldn't surprise me to have to lower the action, tighten a friction tuner, buff out a thumb print left by the seller, even put a new nut on to correct for my taste in string spacing. If a peg was broken, I'd expect a new one shipped out to me pronto, and I'd put it on. If the wood was broken around the peg, I'd expect the seller to assume shipping, and replace it. I hope a new tuner peg was shipped to your friend right away, and that issue may have happened in transit, may have happened after the setup was complete and thought to be good, and then been dropped by an assistant, who turned his head the other way... you see, things happen. BUT- and this is important, I think, don't feel that because a few instruments get delivered with problems, that there is an encompassing problem with quality control. It's human error, and we'll never get away from that. Not ever. It's odds that if you buy 10 ukes from 10 different sellers over the mail, one will have an issue. It's what happens after the issue is disclosed. Those last odds were made up, as 53% of statistics are made up on the fly, but I think you get my drift.
____________________ http://ezfolk.com/audio/NealPaisley http://www.indiependencemusic.net/paisleylawler http://www.myspace.com/nealpaisley |
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BanjoDave Approved
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Neal, if you look under the "Reviews" section, (which I have just read by the way and truthfully did not know this was there) you will find what I'm on about as regards a high end Uke sent to a customer. This scenario is just not on as you will agree.
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Neal Approved
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Point taken. It should not have left the factory. But still falls in the statistical range of "things that shouldn't have left the factory, but did, then left the shipper, and shouldn't have" That would have been a good example of an instrument that could have been sent back, but he's veerry happy with it just the same. The funny thing about Island made ukes that I've read is just that: a lot of imperfections, but sweet sweet sound. Some love the primitive touch that a few of the factories produce, the small mistakes that show it was made by human hands. Kamaka and Koaloha are pretty notorious for a finish you'd send a Martin back for, but loved and wanted just the same. I've only played a '20s Pineapple Kamaka, and the build was certainly nothing to rave about, but did it sound sweet and play well. Yeah, lately I've been looking at the bright side. Nuthin' wrong with that.
____________________ http://ezfolk.com/audio/NealPaisley http://www.indiependencemusic.net/paisleylawler http://www.myspace.com/nealpaisley |
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sano Approved 
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Is it possible to agree with everyone here? Wooden instruments are not stamped out by robots, and there will always be "issues" with instruments made with natural materials. On the other hand, it's natural to be disappointed when major issues arise with $1000+ ukes. Mind you, I say "major issues", not a loose tuner or action not set perfectly (how's a luthier supposed to know your notion of "perfect?). btw, I just spent an afternoon at the beach with a cheap laminate (that I've modified myself, and yes, there are modifications that will improve sound). I'd never bring one of my solid tops to the beach. So I think there's a place for cheap laminates too, and I can't be disappointed with a cheap laminate since my expectations suit the product and I can repair "issues" on my own. I think part of the problem is that uke makers are long on tradition and are slow to adopt new designs and materials (ie carbon fibre) that might reduce the occurance of issues found with wood. Just a thought.... Quick edit: I'm not suggesting carbon fibre is superior to wood (I don't believe so) but only that innovation is a good thing. So's tradition, but with labour costs being what they are, the finest instruments are out of reach for many if not most of us.... Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 01:25 am by sano ____________________ sano |
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Smiffy Approved
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My first uke was a Lark, made in China, cost next to nothing and it was a wee honey. It made me play better, just to overcome its lack of pedigree.
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ichadwick Approved 
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sano wrote: I think part of the problem is that uke makers are long on tradition and are slow to adopt new designs and materials (ie carbon fibre) that might reduce the occurance of issues found with wood. Just a thought.... Manufacturers have been working with various types of plastic as a material since before WW2. Macaferi (sp?) made many instruments from plastic until the 50s or 60s. Ovation has been around since the late 60s, I believe, using their plastic-like backon guitars and ukuleles. Metals have been used in guitars since the 20s or 30s, especially for resonators. There are plastic and metal violins and fiddles on the market, too. It's not a question of being superior, I think, as much as one of tone. Woods absorb sound and reflect back a composite wave, were metal and plastics reflect back much more of the wave, without absorbing as much of it. I have both an Applause and a Fluke and while I love both - little children of mine as they are - they sound distinctly different from a wooden instrument. No better or worse, just different. Personally, I prefer the tones from wood, but every sound has a place and an effect. What I'd like to see, experiment-wise, is using other materials for internal components like bracing and purfling, to see how they affected the tone if the rest of the instrument was made from wood.
____________________ Ian ------------------------------------------- Ukulele reviews: http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/ukuleles.htm Harmonica reviews: http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/harmonicas.htm |
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Ukeconomics Approved 
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The ukulele world is still waiting for it's Robert Godin to appear. http://www.answers.com/topic/lasido-inc In the words of Robert Godin, "Making a good $2,000 guitar is easy. Making a good $200 guitar is hard."
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HowlinHobbit Approved 
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Ukeconomics wrote: The ukulele world is still waiting for it's Robert Godin to appear. I have an Art & Lutherie parlor guitar. Though it shamefully receives less playing than it deserves, it's a great little instrument. The solid cedar top gives it a warm and even response across the strings and the string spacing (and lack of a pickguard) sets it up as a terrific little ragtime or other fingerpicked style guitar. I think that the uke world may have well found its Robert Godin in Ohana. I own their little sopranino. It's all solid mahogany and is incredibly loud (especially for its size), intonates well and isn't appreciably harder to fret than a regular soprano. And the prices are extraordinarily low. Check 'em out.
____________________ Howlin' Hobbit Got Uke? MySpace ezFolk UkeLand |
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ezmember Approved
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My most recent purchase is a Kiwaya long-neck Soprano. I've never seen anything so perfectly made. I don't know how they do it. It's not a cheap uke (mid-range, I guess) but it's a gorgeous mahogany and its makers are obviously detail perfectionists. I've played some of the higher-end ukes talked about here and haven't been too impressed, especially with one particular brand. It was expensive and didn't sound even half as good as my Kala's. My rather in-expensive Kala concert is the one I love to play the most. I put a low G on it and it gives a great sound and really seems to be the perfect size for me. Strangely, it never goes out of tune. I played a Kala Soprano in the store the other day and it was LOUD....an awesome sound. If I was rich, it'd be mine! 
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| ezFolk Forums > Ukulele > General Ukulele > Quality Control/What's going on? | |
