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| Moderated by: Richard Hefner | Page: 1 2 3   |
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| Does Price equal quality? - Beginner Questions - Ukulele - Ukulele - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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wheels Approved
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After reading about Swirl's troubles, I wonder about the belief that quality only comes with a higher price. I'm not surprised that a $400 instrument would have quality problems. Most people on this forum are always saying you get what you pay for. I personally know that you can get stung no matter how much you pay. In fact throughout my life I have found that quality can be had for low prices if you know what to look for. Most good stores that sell on the net have customer comments about the particular instrument you might be interested in. Even eBay sellers have feed back that every buyer should read before they pay their money. Read these reports carefully before you buy. Buyer beware is the name of the game. I haven't paid more than $100 for any of my instuments. None of them have major problems like Swirl's uke. Do my instruments sound as good as a $4K uke? Definately not! However, my $15 pineapple, that I bought just to get the case it came with, sounds as good as the $120 one at the local music store. Would Howlin Hobbit's uke sound as good with me playing it as it does when he plays it? Definately not ! Would my pineapple sound better if Howlin played it? You bet!! Beginners don't need an expensive instrument to enjoy playing and having a great time doing it. Many of the greatest musicians the world has known started with a hand me down piece of junk! If you truly like making music you'll stick with it no matter what you play. If your desire to play is just a fad, you'll stop playing no matter how much you spend on your instrument. As for me, I'll keep playing my low cost instruments and I'll have just as much fun as the guy with that $4K uke. Will I ever play before an audiance? Probably not because that wasn't why I wanted to play. However, if I get to the point where I'm playing at the Nashville Hoe Down I might buy a better instrument. Keep on Strummin'
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Tonya Approved 
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Interesting topic, wheels. I think the key to your premise is your statement, "if you know what to look for." But this is difficult for non-musicians who have no idea how to shop for an ukulele. While they could "learn" about checking intonation, listening for buzz, understanding the benefits of upgrading to a better string set and correcting high (or low) action, they probably won't--because they don't know how nor do they understand the value of those activities and how they will affect the joy (and quick success) they can have in learning to play. I have a small ukulele learning group and, frankly, the majority of folks have never held any instrument in their hands; what they simply understand is how the instrument *looks* and how much it will cost them. I warn them away from the really cheap imports in our two local stores because those instruments, out of the box, have a really high likelihood of being painful to play (high action and tough strings), un-tuneable (is that a word?) or poor intonation (even at the third fret). Yes, you can fine-tune a cheaper instrument into something better (dressing frets, better strings, etc.)--my son has a $25 Mahalo with Aquilas that sounds pretty darn good and fits his needs perfectly--but most *new* players don't know how to do that and the bad experience on the bad instrument means they never get beyond the "fad" element of playing because they're not having any fun or success at all. Hence, I warn them not to "buy cheap" because I'm afraid they'll end up with something that they proudly tote in to our meeting after it arrives from some unknown eBay seller or local shop--and we both discover it sounds perfectly awful when tuned up. My recommendation then, is to purchase from someone like MusicGuyMic (just one of many dealers, but the guy I'd deal with these days) and definitely invest extra money to have this "experienced" person check the instrument, make the adjustments and do what he needs to do to make your instrument (albeit a low-cost one) one that is truly playable. Of course, if you can do these things yourself, all the better--but I have yet to find one of my "new" players who can--or an even initially comprehend why it's important.
____________________ http://ukuleletonya.com |
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musicguymic Approved
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Swirl glad you got youe ryour problem solved and you did bring out one important point. WHEN YOU BUY ON THE INTERNET SEE WHAT THE DEALER WILL DO TO BACK UP THE INSTRUMENT. Many dealers will just refer you to the manufacturer or their representative (for Imports) and feel their job is done. Many of the warranty issues are covered but you have to pay for shipping back and forth. Find a reputable dealer who will help you along with the warranty issues. I have found it was easier to recommend and pay for a local luthier to raise the saddle rather than ship the ukulele back and forth. i also take the ukuleles back to the manufacturers myself rather than have the customer just send it straight as it can usually be done quicker when The dealer oversees it rather than a lone customer. Glad to hear that John K offered to pay for the shipping but as always the case there are two sides to every story. Manufacturers must relay also on the honesty of the consumer when it comes to many warranty issues. Saying their ukulele cracked but they lactually eft it for three weeks out of the case in a heated home at 15% himidity but telling the manufactureer it was in a case with two humdifiers and a dampit who is to know. Say you have a small problem with a import such as Johnson Hamano Ohana etc. the manufacturer distributors are not repair places and they do not spell out any warranty....who will you go to there. You need a reputable full service dealer or music store to have any safety in purchasing those with any issues because all the manufacturer can do in a real defect situation is replace. That is always not the answer because maybe the one you have has awesome grain and tone and just a little adjustment is needed. Anyway thats just my humble opinion
____________________ WOW I got another Uke!!!! |
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Plainsong Approved
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I warn them away from the really cheap imports in our two local stores because those instruments, out of the box, have a really high likelihood of being painful to play (high action and tough strings), un-tuneable (is that a word?) or poor intonation That was my entire argument when I recommended to a fellow newbie that he stretch the budget as much as he can. I'm currently waiting for my first uke from the fine member right above my post, but just my experience from other instruments - a "cheap and cheerful" can downright hurt to play, but at least it sounds bad. And how is that going to keep someone new to the instrument interested? Of course not everything inexpensive is bad of course, that's just true of life in general, so you have to pay attention to other people's experiences and where you're buying it from. There's bang for buck at all the price ranges, but try to get something you enjoy playing. OTOH, sometimes the more upscale an instrument is, the more you have to put into it to get great sound out. I remember an old Buffet clarinet that needed service whenever you looked at it wrong. But those kind of minor repairs were simply par for the course. Wooden intstruments can be temperamental. (like needing those humidifiers and such) - and maybe that's more than a newbie wants to put up with. So you have to look at all the factors and then do your best to pick the one that best suits you overall. I didn't spend a huge deal on my first incoming uke. I THINK I did well, selecting something really good for the price, a Koaloha ksm-10 which sadly is going to be discontinued soon to be replaced by mass import (?). But others may have chosen to go more "up the chain" others may decide that that's way too much, and who is wrong? The only person wrong in that scenario is the one not happy with their instrument. As for me? Will the "intonation" (a funny word to use with ukes I think) be up to my usual standards that I set for myself? Not hardly. But at least I have a shot at improving. For my part, I wanted to get a traditional uke with a traditional sound to start off from. Not everyone wants or needs the same thing. And if you have a chance to actually test one out, then more's the better, because it's all about how the instrument feels for you.
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Tin Ukulele Approved 
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The amazing thing is that you can find so many good ukes for less than $400, which is hard to do with guitars. BTW, theres a TERRIFIC deal at MGM's right now for a Tenor Surf Fluke, which usually goes for around $300 + shipping. If you want it you'd better jump b/c it probably won't last.
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davebough Approved 
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Price is clearly one indicator of quality, but it is not enough. I think the dealer is more important. I would not hesitate to buy an instrument from MusicGuyMike. It is clear from all the boards that he tries to make sure you understand what you are buying and he doesn't ship it without making sure it is in good shape. I am lucky because I live 1/2 hour from Elderly Instruments, the only other dealer I would buy sight unseen from. Luckily I don't have to, and I spend many hours there doodling around with the ukes. dave
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wheels Approved
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Tonya, you mention, "I think the key to your premise is your statement, "if you know what to look for." But this is difficult for non-musicians who have no idea how to shop for an ukulele." This is very true and is why I also said, "Most good stores that sell on the net have customer comments about the particular instrument you might be interested in. Even eBay sellers have feed back that every buyer should read before they pay their money. Read these reports carefully before you buy." This is exactly what I did before I put down my money. The information I gained from buyer feed back was invaluable. I really had very little knowledge about musical instruments and I believe this vital tool is why I was able to make choices that I am pleased with. Keep on Strummin'
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Plainsong Approved
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I'll use the analogy of clarinets because that's what I have the most experience with, besides voice - and voices come free.  I started out on a student resonite (plastic) Bundy. It sounded crap, and the keys were shaped in an awful way, that of course as a newbie, I had no idea. Of course I improved on the horn, but crap is crap is crap. So fast forward to high school, I find myself in a position of being section leader. Sure the resonite Bundy is the weapon of choice for marching. You can run the thing over and it'll still play, but it's time to get something that sounds nice. I had the chance to test drive 6 wooden clarinets and I chose the Buffet E45. The E45, besides sounding better, had much more playable key and hole shapes, was a joy to play. But it was temperamental. Look at wrong, and you'll find one of spring to a spatula key broken, and Charleston, SC is very humid, and you had to be careful with the wood. And now, 10 plus years down the road, the Buffet's bore is cracked, unplayable. I have no idea where the Bundy is, but a few Christmases ago, mom went to a music shop run by a retired band director. He knew what she was looking for and set her up with a used Resonite (plastic again) Vito. So, the Vito is plastic and costs much much less than a wooden horn. But, the ergonomics mimic a Buffet, the feel of the holes is great, the shape of the keys is nice and playable, and with a decent mouthpiece, I can make something with this horn. So see, the Vito is the budget gem, and the E45 was the expensive monster, and both are a joy to play. (I could only show up to a gig with the E45 or some other respected wooden horn though). I also have an Aulos plastic baroque recorder that even though it's plastic, you can absolutely perform with it) And now I'm sure we have the same analogies in the uke world, as with all instruments. In the Koaloha ksm-10, I don't expect a Selmer Paris or a Buffet E45. I'm more hoping for an entry level Buffet B12. And since they're almost the same price, that's what I think I'm going to get. I've heard that musicguymic basically won't sell a bad instrument, so you're probably safe choosing whichever floats your boat from him.  I wouldn't mind picking up a Fluke myself, to have a different voice and something that's a beater around, but first I have to see if I can make my fingers do the walking on the uke.Last edited on Sat Aug 25th, 2007 07:29 pm by Plainsong |
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garyblanchard Approved 
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I am a firm believer in basically inexpensive instruments. I play a Deering Goodtime banjo, bought new for under $300. My resonator guitar is a Rogue I bought for under $200; my acoustic-electric is a Rogue that I bought for about $89.00. (The four newest songs I posted were played on that guitar.) My mandolin is a Mid-Mo I bought new for about $250. I play a Fender Telecoustic guitar I bought used for about $200, and my Peavy Raptor electric I bought used for $90. My Bushman Jenny concert uke was $200 new. None of these would qualify as high-end instruments, yet they are more than adequate for me and make good music. I see nothing wrong with buying an expenive instrument if you can afford to, and if you want to. I do get frustrated at times with the "if it don't cost a lot, it ain't worth having" attitude that I see on some forums (but is happily rare here). Yes, there are some bad, cheap instruments out there; I've seen some bad expensive ones as well. I do know, for a fact, that some nice instruments can be found for reasonable amounts of money. That's where you will always find me. 
____________________ http://www.GBandF.com |
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lynngator Approved
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Hello all, As a new ukulele player who is gaining in confidence and experience, I stand by my pink Flea. Even with the original strings (I did buy the recommended Aquilas but never got around to changing them) it sounds wonderful. The Hawaiian gentleman who has helped me plays a vintage Kamaka and he has been very impressed with the sound. As I recall my Flea was about $129 and I have certainly gotten my money's worth. It was thanks to posts on this forum I decided on the Flea. Perhaps someday I'll want a more expensive instrument, but I think I'd want to make a "hands-on choice." Perhaps a good reason for a trip to Hawaii! A guitar playing friend thinks I'd have fun with an electric uke -- I didn't know there was such a thing. If so, is there a reasonable one with a sweet sound like the Flea? Thanks again to everyone for all your advice and encouragement. Lynn
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Plainsong Approved
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Yeah, Risa makes an electric that I want really bad. I can plug that thing into a small amp and really crunch it and a great time can be had by all. And it looks to be the perfect size for sitting on the couch. My husband wants me to learn the basic blues line first (the run Rigk teaches on YouTube) so that I can play with him on guitar. See, even on a small Baby Martin, my fingers cannot make a bar chord. I'm thinking that, with, practice, my tiny woodwind-playing fingers will eventually grasp the idea. But I don't think that's alone is enough to pick up a new instrument, you've gotta like the sound, and I do.
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honu Approved
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I have a RISA Ellie. It comes with nylon strings. Works great plugged in. The uke does not have a soundbox and thus it can be heard very softly unplugged. It's a great uke for electric. Sounds almost as sweet as a Flea. I also have a pineapple Flea...it's my practice and travel uke. I believe Tonya has one too. My 2 cents about this thread? I completely agree with Tonya. I have found that paying more for a quality uke is worth the expense. A more expensive uke makes any player, including a beginner sound better than their current skill level. Another major benefit? An uke player can increase their skillsets with the same uke. Unless they acquire that terrible disease called UAS.
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Plainsong Approved
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Well this is just typical. My Koaloha arrived in Finland on the Sunday. That should mean on Monday it gets processed, and on Tuesday I get the notice to come to customs and get it. When I track it with the USPS tracking, it says they tried to deliver it. When I track it with the Finnish Postal tracking, it says it's waiting at customs for me to pick it up. Meanwhile, I should have gotten the package notice days ago but haven't. It's not difficult to figure out what happened - the new mail currier has been delivering things to the wrong apartment addresses for the last few weeks. Someone else got my package notice. I'm not worried about it being stolen, because they'd have to pay a pretty penny at customs to do that. But if that's true, then I'll have to wait 2 or more weeks to get the second notice.  This crap always happens to me.. 
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az123 Approved
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I agree that confidence in a dealer with a good track record, clear return policies, etc. For ukuleles, I only know about Elderly and Musicguymic, who offer good products at fair prices; set up the instruments before shipping them out; and respond quickly to questions. I'm wary of big boxes like MF & Music123, who've made notable errors in my previous dealings with them. In the "how much to pay" area, it's like a lot of things: bicycles, hi-fi equipment, etc. Below a certain point, you will get junk--guaranteed. Then things get better with highter cost until you reach the point of diminishing returns. That's why I'd buy a Fender guitar that's very well made in Mexico rather than an American-made instrument that's bound to be somewhat better but at three times the price. Same with ukuleles: I'm loving my Koalana concert model that cost less than $200 including case, upgrades, & shipping, rather than paying much more for a Koaloha (again, a great instrument, but much more money...)
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Plainsong Approved
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From Musicguymic, the Koaloha wasn't that much more... just sayin'.
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az123 Approved
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The Koaloha concert was $549 plus shipping, which is a great price for the instrument, but quite a bit more than the $165 plus shipping (plus additional cost for upgraded tuners) that the Koalana concert went for. I'm all for people buying the best instruments they can, but for me, those darned budgetary constraints keep getting in the way...
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Plainsong Approved
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The Koaloha I went with was the pikake soprano. On Koaloha's site it says it's being discontinued to pave the way for the Koalana's. Whether Musicguymic can score some more ksm-10's, or if this will become a rare beast, I don't know (I hope not, this uke is great). But that was 389 including the case and the humidifier and chord book and tuner. It's a little pricier than the Koalana, but not by a huge margin. That's what I was comparing to. I didn't realize we were talking about concert size.
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sano Approved 
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honu wrote: ...A more expensive uke makes any player, including a beginner sound better than their current skill level. Another major benefit? An uke player can increase their skillsets with the same uke. An uke player can increase their skillsets with the same uke. Is there an advantage to this? I find variety instructive and so enjoyable... and I'm just a novice.
____________________ sano |
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sano Approved
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I think of myself as a learner rather than a dilettante collector. Nevertheless, I have acquired 3 instruments of modest value in the last short while, and I feel the variety of experiences that 2 sopranos and a tenor will give me will be well worth it. I get to try new strings, different tunings and frets, appreciate the differences in soundboards and styles. For me, three is better than one. I think even a couple hundred can buy a couple decent instruments, if one shops very carefully. A novice can educate her/himself on the net (on forums like this there are insightful reviews of budget ukes too). I'm not sure anyone can find a single ideal 'uk at any price, and choosing a single one is hardest i think for the beginner.... Last edited on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 07:53 am by sano ____________________ sano |
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PJ Approved
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When I was playing recorder, I learned that it took a lot of money to buy a wood instrument that equaled the sound of a good quality plastic instrument. I thought about that again when I bought a replica of my first ukulele on Ebay, a white plastic Flamingo with Arthur Godfrey's picture on the box. I tuned it, and guess what? It wasn't too bad. A beginner doesn't have to take out a second mortgage to buy a decent instrument. ( I don't mean I'm recommending the Flamingo.) When I started playing uke again as an adult, my first uke was a Flea. Like my old recorder, it's partly a tough plastic. And the tone still sounds good. Today I have more expensive ukes, but I still keep my Flea for rainy outdoor playing. It also is the one I take on airplanes worry free. But, a beginner should seek out advice on that first uke. If you get one that can't hold it's tuning or has the action too high, or just sounds bad, it probably will not be played long. Wheels, You should drive into Seattle the first Sunday of the month and check out the ukuleles at SUPA, if you haven't already done that. A ukulele club is a great place for advice and support. Besides, it's lots of fun.
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