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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner | Page:   1 2 3   |
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| Chords | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 01:33 pm |
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21st Post |
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BanjoDave Approved
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Vintage, that’s not true at all. I have always said I can’t do the B or Bb. I then stated that I saw a video of Pat Costell (I asked people to look at it and see if the ideas apply to the Uke) who explains that Beginner Tenor Banjo books are sometimes complete hogwash in that they have your fingers doing all sorts of things when there really is no need at the start. You replied that I do need to be able to do the Bb and there is no way round it. I then said as it was too difficult at this stage for me to do so for the time being I will work around it, and what I meant by that was I am not prepared to spend my whole time learning this one chord if I can move on and come back to it later. This is obviously something you don't like. Jim Bellof may be an expert but even Richard noticed that one of his songs in a beginners book was not in the right key and he found it odd that it was included. I mentioned 3 chords, 4 chords, whatever, because with minimum chord knowledge I can get on with at least learning many songs as well as practicing strumming etc and melody playing without being bogged down for god knows how long trying learn to play the Bb. Can’t you see? Is this such a big deal to you that a beginner has found out that he can learn to play a truck load of songs without this chord and meanwhile keep practicing to get this chord down? Or should I just “Buck Up” and learn the chord before anything else.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 01:57 pm |
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22nd Post |
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VintageFL Approved
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BanjoDave wrote:Vintage, that’s not true at all. Dave, come on. Don't be ridiculous. Not a single person said you should hold up everything until you learn to master the Bb chord. All we did say is that it's a valuable chord form and that learning moveable chord forms is an important part of learning to play the ukulele well. And, even in first position only, it's one of the three most basic chords in the key of F, which is a very handy key to know on the ukulele. Then we offered you ways to perhaps make it easier to play for you and suggested you keep practicing it along with (not instead of) the rest of what you're doing. It's been my experience that most people who can't play it are using incorrect hand positions, and once they learn how to brace the uke properly, the chord is no big deal. If you want to just learn a few easy chords and have a strum, and if it's too taxing to learn too many new things right now, then that's another story. So just master C, F and G7 and have yourself a ball. You might also check out some of the beginner uke instructional videos on this site and available via DVD. Maybe that would be more beneficial to you than the books. Some people do learn better by watching others than just by books alone. Last edited on Wed Apr 25th, 2007 02:05 pm by VintageFL |
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 07:36 pm |
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23rd Post |
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melodeonmark Approved 
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Dave, Don't take it to heart. Is this the first instrument you are learning to play? I ask this because when I was learning to play my first one, a harmonica, I asked a bloke who played well if he could give me any advice. He said 'practice, practice, practice again'. It wasn't the advice I wanted to hear but it was good advice. Nobody here wants to have a go at you, they want to help you. If you just want to play easy songs then just learn 3 easy chords C -F -G and play Status Quo songs all in the same key. Or start off with that then and spend 10 mins a day practicing all the other chords. It may take a long time to get them, but that's life. If it's worth doing it's worth doing well. It don't come easy! You can do it if you try. But please be prepared when asking advice and you don't get the answer you wanted, it's not because people are having a pop at you, it's because people are trying to help you!!! Mark 
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 08:43 pm |
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24th Post |
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BanjoDave Approved
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Well I think I have been taken the wrong way or not explained myself clear here and its gone off on a tangent. But I have not took it to heart at all. Let me just say something which may or may not be relevant but which might explain where I’m coming from. There are 2 things in my life that I have excelled at. One is a sport which I reached international standard, the other I classed as a hobby but which I now teach students who want to get better or show better ways of doing close up Magic. In both of those things I had to practice for hours on end year in year out. It was no hardship because I liked doing what I was doing and in the case of teaching students of Magic, still do. To my point: It took me years to find out that certain things which were laid down as law and must do by those that went before me could in fact be altered into an easier “work around”. You will see this in nearly all sports today where new ideas have replaced the old and which are easier. In the case of Magic, one can spend hours and hours perfecting certain moves which although very clever, is sometimes a worthless task when someone who has spent the same amount of hours doing the same thing works out and shows how easier it is to do it another way giving the same effect. The problem is that the harder ways are still in print so the novice would not know any better. One can never ever get away from practicing anything if your aim is to do something well - I should know. But there are ways of doing things that just might be easier for the novice to get started on the right path. I asked a question about a chord. Nothing exciting to those that can play it, but for those that have an insider knowledge, older head, and can go beyond the books, I was merely asking if the Bb or anything else if you like can be altered or worked around, changed or left out. I am asking as a novice who only wants to play sing along songs. I am not looking to spend the rest of my life learning everything about any instrument and learning every chord if I don’t need to. I have been there done that and got the T shirt. As I said earlier, I saw a video by Pat Costello and understood where he was coming from starting again if you like in another field but knowing from experience what and why he was teaching the way he does. But I also bought a beginners book which stated that Bb can’t be avoided. Being skeptical if you like, drove to ask a question on this forum. Don’t get me wrong (which it seems may have been the case) if Bb or anything else is one of the golden must haves in anyone’s fingers then that is how it is and as I explained earlier, that being the case if it is cast in stone, for now I will have to leave it alone and work on it. But I didn't want to waste my practice time nailing this chord if there was an alternative or if I will never need it. That was all I was trying to find out. I hope that explains things.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 09:20 pm |
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25th Post |
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scrooner Approved
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There is no stone for any of this to be set in. My thoughts are like the those before mine: If you play beginner music like I do, you'll need Bb frequently. Unless you like to transpose songs to different keys, which can really be a pain. Personally, I find Bb to be one of the easier chords, and I have small hands. Maybe it's something I picked up years ago when I used to play guitar, but I can't picture what it is about this chord that is difficult.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 09:55 pm |
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26th Post |
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melodeonmark Approved
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Dave, If the 'practice, practice, practice' route is not for you, why not use your magic skills?  Mark
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2007 10:27 pm |
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27th Post |
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absurdus_delirium Approved 
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Yeah, don't worry too much over one particular chord, Dave! The way we learn things is quite strange sometimes, innit? If you read the other thread you would see that I managed to properly barre chords about a year after I started playing! Some other aspects of playing (clawhammering, fingerpicking) came closer to my grasp as time went by and I diverted my efforts towards different techniques. Eitherway, in my opinion, VintageFL's post - although she was correct about this being a VERY important chord shape - missed the mark a bit (since you didn't stop following the thread and, besides, a lot of people starting off are watching these and older threads and pick up a lot of stuff) but what melodeonmark is saying is true. There are a lot of wonderful people here that make up a great, albeit virtual, ukulele community! PLUS, absurdus
____________________ http://ezfolk.com/audio/absurdus_delirium i guess, the more u like music, the more music u like! |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 12:14 am |
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28th Post |
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BanjoDave Approved
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So what happens in Jazz for instance? I am only asking because they seem to change things around all the time and improvise. I also can’t get my head round Django Reinhardt who could only use 2 fingers to play chords. Watching him go up and down the fret blows your mind.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 04:01 pm |
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29th Post |
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melodeonmark Approved
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BanjoDave wrote: So what happens in Jazz for instance? I am only asking because they seem to change things around all the time and improvise. That's because they have learnt all the chords!!!  Think of the chords as building blocks, once you know them you can build different things with them. Mark
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 04:08 pm |
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30th Post |
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BanjoDave Approved
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melodeonmark wrote:BanjoDave wrote:So what happens in Jazz for instance? I am only asking because they seem to change things around all the time and improvise. Yes, well I did guess that but that don't explain Django.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 04:24 pm |
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31st Post |
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melodeonmark Approved
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Maybe because he practiced
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 04:47 pm |
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32nd Post |
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BanjoDave Approved
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Wht are you talking to me that way? I only asked a simple question. If you don't know who he is do a google.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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33rd Post |
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scrooner Approved
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I watched some YouTube videos of Django this morning. I don't see him doing any chords like the Bb, or really any chords at all for that matter. So it looks like you don't need chords at all. There you go. For more inspiration, check out the Presidents of the United States of America. They play a guitar with 3 strings and a bass with 2.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 03:02 pm |
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34th Post |
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JohnB Approved 
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I think this is answer you were loooking for... The easiest way to play a Bb, in my opinion, although I don't use this positioning often, is to use your typical "G" structure, o232, and play that on the 5th fret. So you'd have x565, the"x" means mute that string, simply rest the thumb on your right hand, your strumming hand, on the G string to mute it. However, it's slightly advanced, but if you can, stretch that pinky on up to the G string on the 7th fret and there you'd have the full chord, 7565. If muting with your right hand thumb doesn't work for you due to your strumming technique, try wrapping your left hand thumb around the neck to mute the G. This gives a higher pitch to the Bb chord, but, that's the deal, and there are other ways to play it, but you might start here. If your goal is to play it on the first fret using 3211, try moving up to the 3rd fret and play the C, using this same positioning, there you'd have 5433. I think it's gonna be easier to get the feel for this chord positioning/structure going a bit further up the neck, and once you are comfortable playing the C as 5433, then move it on back to the 1st fret for your Bb. Another way, which may not be desireable, is to tune your Uke down a whole step, and then you'd have the simple ooo3 position as your Bb, this will work as long as the song you are playing has all flats. If it that's not the case, then you have a whole new bag of tricks to learn with your uke tuned down to Bb, you probably don't wanna go there. Anyway you do it, I suggest you try them all, it all amounts to practice and that can make you perfect. Last edited on Sat Apr 28th, 2007 03:13 pm by JohnB |
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 01:34 pm |
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35th Post |
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artcrocker Approved
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My comment on learning Bb is that as all the experienced players have mentioned, it is difficult. I have been playing ukulele almost a year now and the Bb is now very playable for me, not clean but playable. During my first few months I found it almost impossible to finger and felt there must be a Trick to it. As with everything you practice over and over it magically happens after a little time. My advice, as I look back, would be not to worry about it and just have confidence that in a few months it will happen.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 02:50 pm |
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36th Post |
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1four5 Approved 
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To my point: It took me years to find out that certain things which were laid down as law and must do by those that went before me could in fact be altered Personally, I've not figured out "standard tuning" and the why of it. I was in this boat with guitar, as a beginner, with fingertwister chords. Then I found out about open tunings like open D and especially open G. Then I found out with ukes they call it "slack key". I immediately tuned my guitar to open G and my baratone uke to open G. I've never gone back to "standard" tuning. Now if I want a Bb I just barr the 3rd fret and I got it. Simple songs with basic chords suddenly became so simple I couldn't believe it. All I needed to know was what fret to lay one finger across, and then strum, finger pick and sing and have tons of fun. This has progressed over the last few years. Because of doing this with a uke, I was able to pick up a banjo (tuned open G) and play it that day, and it's been my main instrument ever since. As songs have become more complicated, I've learned all my scales, chord forms and inversions in open G tuning, and have found none of them to be as tough as the stuff I tried to learn in standard. I've gone full circle, and gotten back to my guitar lately, and play exclusively in open tunings. Somewhere out there (I cant remember the name) there is a uke website all about open tunings or "slack keys". With only 4 strings, I can't believe this isn't much more popular with ukes.
____________________ These are the good times! |
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2007 11:58 pm |
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37th Post |
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Richard Hefner Administrator 
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Hey Dean... that's a good point about using open G tuning (or open C on a standard uke). Since I play the banjo I've messed around with it some. It does work well and I think for most people it would be easier, but the reason I've stayed away from teaching that way is the standard tuning (GCEA, or DGBE on the baritone) is taught pretty much universally so I've tried to keep it as mainstream as possible since there is a limited amount that I'm able to do. Somebody who already plays the banjo could tune the uke in an open tuning and feel right at home without much instruction at all. On the other hand, complete beginners will most likely have a harder time because almost 100% of the available instruction uses standard uke tuning. Anyway, that's why I don't get into myself on ezFolk, but you're right... it's really easier. 
____________________ Richard Hefner MP3 Page: http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/richardhefner Running Blog: http://old-runner.com |
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 02:40 pm |
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38th Post |
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John Kavanagh Approved 
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You can also play Bb 321x or 35x5. The advantage of the first one is that as you get better control over your fingers (it's not really a "strength" thing), you'll just change the position of your first finger to play the full chord, so it's not like relearning. Django Reinhardt could use his damaged 3rd and 4th fingers some in chording, not that that makes him any less amazing. He used only his 1st and 2nd fingers for playing melodies.
____________________ ------------------------------ Have I plugged this CD enough? http://ezfolk.com/audio/John_Kavanagh |
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 02:46 pm |
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39th Post |
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VintageFL Approved
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I would slightly disagree, John, I do think it is equally a strength thing. It's learning to train the gripping hand muscles to squeeze from that braced thumb position behind the neck to hold a barre or partially barred chord down firmly, which is why it comes over time as the muscles strengthen and fingers get used to this rather unnatural-feeling position. It's as much exercising those muscles as it is technique. Last edited on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 02:50 pm by VintageFL |
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| Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:51 pm |
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40th Post |
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VintageFL Approved
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The best reason I know for learning the Bb chord as 3211: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mu8D69uxA0
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