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| Two Celtic tunes are hiding from me. | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 01:46 am |
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1st Post |
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Philj200 Approved 
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Jennifer Gentle The Fenian Gun A friend called and asked me to accompany him at a jam, but we haven't had time to get together and practice. I went to the 'net but couldn't find either of these pieces. Lyrics yes. Tunes, no. Anyone know of these pieces?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 04:39 am |
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2nd Post |
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theBlackman Approved 
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http://www.thebards.net/music/lyrics/Old_Fenian_Gun.shtml http://www.mudcat.org/media/JNFRGNTL.MID Here are the tunes. Fenian has a DL at the top of the page, and a Listen. Here are the suggested chords for Fenian: verse/chorus: G C G C G D G G C G D G C G Am C D C C G G G-D-G Last edited on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 04:47 am by theBlackman ____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 11:16 am |
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3rd Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Mudcat... of course. Forgot about that site. They move so fast, it was hard to follow or join a discussion. But their archives are PROFOUND. Thanks Dusty, again.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 03:42 pm |
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4th Post |
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ejsant Approved 
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Hey Phil, Wouldn't "The Fenian Gun" be an Irish song? My understanding is that the Fenian Brotherhood was an organization fighting for an independent Irish Republic. Great song by the way. All the best! Peace, Ed
____________________ Peace, a brilliant aspiration!!! Traditional and Contemporary Irish Music P.O. Box 5086 Phillipsburg, NJ 08865 (201) 424-6141 http://www.EdSaultz.com http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/Ed_Saultz |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 06:13 pm |
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5th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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The Fenian Gun actually is a poem that can be sung, as my friend intends to do. It is as Irish as the shamrock. While Dusty sent me the words and a rough chord line, the melody eludes me. Jennifer Gentle is the second piece we'll do when the jam circle comes round to him again. The Fenians as far as I know date back at least to the early 19th Century. After the ACW, a company of Fenians wishing to pressure the British into freeing Ireland, came to the US, purchased CW surplus uniforms, dyed them green, and invaded Canada. I guess they would later trade Canada back for Irish independence. A unit of Canadian militia was raised to battle them. At first the Fenians did well, even breaking a British Square (a defensive formation), a very rare military event (Napoleon couldn't do it at Waterloo), but with no logisitical support whatever, a very pissed off US government in back of them and rapidly organizing Canadians in front of them, the invasion fizzled. Speaking of things Irish, a concertina player and friend will be doing "Sheebeg and Sheemore" with a fine fiddle player and myself on banjo. This 32-bar tune reaches back into mythology and is a lovely as any tune I've ever heard in the Celtic tradition. I use the term Celtic inclusive of both Irish and Scots. That's a correct usage I've always assumed. Last edited on Fri Sep 18th, 2009 12:56 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 08:11 pm |
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6th Post |
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theBlackman Approved
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Phil, at the FENIAN link the top of the page has a LISTEN and you can hear the tune, or DL it. That's what I thought I said in the post. Take a look at the very top left center of the page that shows up. Right under the title THE OLD FENIAN GUN. The Old Fenian Gun Listen: LoFi | Download | Send E-Card | Chords From: n/a  Dusty Last edited on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 08:14 pm by theBlackman ____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 08:24 pm |
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7th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I saw that, but the only link that's live is chords, and it loops me back to the same page. (SFX: Gnashing of teeth). Found a U-tube link that no longer is active too. Do you think the bloody black and tans are involved?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 09:39 pm |
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8th Post |
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theBlackman Approved
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My apologies. I did not listen. But I did find some 30 or 40 that said they had the tune. I'll do another GOOGLE and see what turns up. Sorry  Here is a site with many Irish, and other UK tunes and lyrics. http://www.kitchenmusician.net/pages/kmmusicalpha.html http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gunnmarc2/from/celtic/ A parody of the Old Fenian. You can play the tune, or DL it. Last edited on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 09:59 pm by theBlackman ____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 10:12 pm |
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9th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Dusty, have you ever considered adopting me? Just kidding. I appreciate the endeavor.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 10:20 pm |
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10th Post |
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theBlackman Approved
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I found the Old Fenian Gun, but no luck so far with the Cannon. I'll email you the Gun just in case it is the tune you want. Here is another link to a free online celtic newsletter. http://www.celticmp3s.com/
____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 10:25 pm |
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11th Post |
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theBlackman Approved
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http://c1.ezfolk.com/Marc_Gunn/ Try a PM or Email to the above. I thought I recognized the name. Marc has a dozen CD albums out and one of them has the Old Fenian Cannon on it. In fact you might check his site (above) and get lucky. I'm certain he would answer a note or EM from you. Dusty
____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 11:57 pm |
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12th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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That's it!!!! The chords are easily played mostly giving a cadence more then melody. It is indeed a poem with a chordal accompaniment. And while a trifle melodramatic, it will go over well. Now on to Jennifer Gentle. That song is part of a circle of songs and may have more than one name. Why does that not surprise me. CSI:EZFolk is on the case.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 10:54 am |
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13th Post |
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ejsant Approved
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Hey Phil, Aye, Ireland would indeed be considered one of the "Celtic" nations, which by the way includes more then Ireland and Scotland. The term "Celtic Music" or "Celtic Song" would be the general category, for lack of a better term coming to mind at this hour. To my way of thinking calling an Irish song, or poem as the case may be, "Celtic" in this regard would be akin to calling a great American folk standard simply "Folk". I suppose it's just one of my pet peeves. Si Bheag Si Mhor, as one way it would be entitled in Irish, is indeed a lovely, and very popular, waltz and some say the playing of it evokes the fairies to show themselves. There's a bit about the tune here: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/449 under the "Comments" tab. Lovely choice by the way. All the best! Peace, Ed
____________________ Peace, a brilliant aspiration!!! Traditional and Contemporary Irish Music P.O. Box 5086 Phillipsburg, NJ 08865 (201) 424-6141 http://www.EdSaultz.com http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/Ed_Saultz |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 12:50 pm |
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14th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Several things: The site Ed referenced is a treasure trove of information. But not always accessible. The first link to the tune rendered a "Page Not Found", the second crashed my Foxfire (that sounds like a line from Joyce). Members there post in an adult and dignified manner including sending versions of the score. But I'll be mistaken for basketball center before I can figure out FG|A4G2|F3G AF|G4GF|D2A,2D2|G4B2|A2B2c2|d2A3G|F2D2F2| G2E4|F2D4|A,4^A,2|B,4F2|G2F2E2|A2A,4|D6-|-D4:|: A2|d2A4|A2d2c2|d2 GA Bc|d2A4|ABc2AB|c2F2A2|B2D2GF|G2F2E2| A,4^A,2|B,4F2|G2E4|F2D4|GAB2G2|A2A,4|D6-|-D4:|| On to a variation of the Celtic/Irish posit: Can American an American standard be called Folk? My opinion, it can. Last month at a jam, a lady sang Summertime. It worked fantastically. People write folk songs today... and sell them. We call the Carter family's output folk music. They didn't. Every time a Delta blues singer was recorded (except for the Library of Congress and the Lomai) if was a commercial enterprise and therefore antithetical to the folk process... or is it. When Ewan McColl sang "Bonny Bunch of Rose-O" money changed hands. Fine by me. My way of looking at it is the tone, delivery and instrumentation and the venue to some degree, define if a song is a folk song. I have never lived in a sod shanty on the plains so my definition is tempered by my 20th and 21st century reality. To me, if a Vegas show band backs up sequined lounge act doing "Shenandoah," it is not a folk song (for the nonce). If a person with a guitar on a park bench strums "Riders on the Storm" in a manner consistent with the folk process... it is. Speaking of Joyce, I'm reading Thomas Pynchon's Inherent Vice. He has been called the American James Joyce. But either I've got brighter or he's relaxing. This book is easy and fun to read. The others have all been mental wrestling matches. Last edited on Wed Sep 16th, 2009 12:52 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 01:51 pm |
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15th Post |
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ejsant Approved
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Hey Phil, I would suppose that the member posted links to recordings the tune appears on may be outdated if the original poster doesn't keep it updated. Such is the way of public built databases on the Internet I've found. Truth be told rarely do I find the Session.org site down, or excessively slow for that matter. The format that you would find yourself a basketball center before you've deciphered it is referred to as "ABC's". You can copy the complete text, including the header lines, into a process at concertina.net and get the dots if you prefer. Truth be told I can't decipher either of these two methods. I may have given you the wrong impression as to what I was on about concerning the "Celtic" vs. "Irish" and the "American Folk Standard" as simply "Folk" example. I guess what I'm trying to impart is that the song/poem you referenced is more accurately described as an "Irish" song/poem rather then "Celtic" in so far as "Irish" is a more precise classification. The "What constitutes "Folk" music" debate is an endless one with viable arguments presented from all sides of the debate really. I suppose it is similar to the "What constitutes pornography" debate in that the most reasonable response to the query is perhaps; "I can't define it in words but I know it when I see (hear) it". By the way were you able to download Marc Gunn's version of "The Old Fenian Gun"? It's a lovely version. All the best! Peace, Ed
____________________ Peace, a brilliant aspiration!!! Traditional and Contemporary Irish Music P.O. Box 5086 Phillipsburg, NJ 08865 (201) 424-6141 http://www.EdSaultz.com http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/Ed_Saultz |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 02:00 pm |
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16th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Truth be told rarely do I find the Session.org site down, or excessively slow for that matter. --The site was up, the links were hinky, but then again so is Firefox lately. concertina.net and get the dots if you prefer. --I'm too back logged for another instrument to enter my life. I leave to my friend Ken to play his 1911 concertina at the jam tomorrow night. Truth be told I can't decipher either of these two methods. --Once warned, twice shy. I'll leave it alone. rather then "Celtic" in so far as "Irish" is a more precise classification. --Agree The "What constitutes "Folk" music" debate is an endless one with viable arguments presented from all sides of the debate really. I suppose it is similar to the "What constitutes pornography" debate in that the most reasonable response to the query is perhaps; "I can't define it in words but I know it when I see (hear) it". --Porn corollary works. Pete Seeger once chimed in on the subject saying something about folk songs do not have to be aged and ripe like old cheese. By the way were you able to download Marc Gunn's version of "The Old Fenian Gun"? It's a lovely version. --I was and did. The autoharp really works for this piece. I wouldn't mind some pipes as well. And a drum.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 01:08 pm |
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17th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Well, after all that preparation, my friend didn't show up. So the "Old Fenian Gun" is back hanging over the mantle till the next jam. But I'm ready. The accompaniment is relatively easy, alternating G and C's and an occasional Ami when the mood requires. As I said, it's a poem. What did happen is that the fiddle player and the concertina player did show up and we did "Sheebeg and Sheemore" as a trio. And well, modesty be damned, we kicked ass. If that can be said about a tune as melodic and gentle as this. The concertina and fiddle traded lines and CO-OPERATED perfectly, listening for phrasing and giving each other breathing room (and time). Playing (skating mostly) counterparts. and I played a BGish roll on the banjo but more arpeggio than Appalachia. It really was working... ... then someone said, "Hey, this is in the Fiddler's Fakebook," page 253. And we had about nine guitars, another 5-string, another fiddle and two mandolins picking along ... and it still worked. Two people sitting in the back (the non-picking section) stood up and waltzed. Actually, it was a lot of fun. May the road rise up, etc. Last edited on Fri Sep 18th, 2009 01:09 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 05:42 pm |
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18th Post |
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theBlackman Approved
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Modesty be damned. "He who bloweth not his own horn... Said horn goeth unblown."
____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 05:45 pm |
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19th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Next jam with this group in 10/22. The guy who was to have done Old Fenian Gun apologized. And will make it next time. Gee, golly. I'm all a quiver waiting. (Or something close. Or not) Y'all come.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19th, 2009 04:28 pm |
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20th Post |
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Bob Tedrow Approved
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Shebeg Shemor makes a great concertina tune, my wife and I play in on the front porch.
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