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| Parlor guitars - questions - General Guitar - Guitar - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
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countrylady Approved
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 Hi, I am a newby guitar player. Just finished my third lesson the other night and am having a blast. I was a music major many years ago but was in wood winds. Wasn't able to end up with a career in music but have always loved playing instruments.. Now, many years later, I am retired and have the opportunity to learn guitar, a lifelong desire..Whew..ok. I am small... I started out with a loaner classical. The neck at the nut is too wide and I can't reach some of the chords.. So now I am using an old Harmony. It has steel strings, so although the neck at the bolt is narrower (1 11/16 vs 2") I am having just as much trouble playing it due to the steel strings and my fingers not being toughened yet. I have read some about settings that are closer to the body on some guitars than others and wonder if that is part of the problem with this guitar... not that I plan to change that on a loaner guitar. Anyway.. I drift from my original question. I was told by my instructor to stay away from "travel" size guitars and the baby Taylors because the sound range is different than other guitars and you can't play with other people with full sized guitars. Can anyone tell me if parlor guitars fall into this category also? or do they play ok with other people's guitars? Also..it is so frustrating that most sites don't have dimensions on guitars and it is hard to find that information on some makes. Is there a typical size for parlor guitars.. width at the nut etc? Thanks for helping out an enthusiastic newby. 
____________________ Music loving g'ma |
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Will Approved 
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countrylady wrote:
The standard size guitar today is known as the dreadnought. Below the dreadnought in size is the auditorium (or "000"), the grand concert ("00"), and the concert ("0") - this is a generalization, based upon the graphic that I found below:  The standard acoustic guitar neck today has 14 frets clear of the body. The older style neck had 12 frets clear of the body, and the body shape is slightly different, indicated as "12-fret" in the above diagram; these vintage-style guitars are still made, but are usually more expensive. Parlor guitars are considered "small body" guitars, reminiscent of the generally smaller sized guitars from a century ago. There doesn't seem to be a standard definition for what a "parlor" size is - I've seen it described as everything from a 000 down to an 0 sized, and sometimes smaller. During the past few years, parlor guitars have become rather popular, and many companies now offer them, including Seagull, Fender, Washburn, etc. A small body guitar is easier to learn on, especially for beginners (I know it worked for me when I was a beginner, not that long ago; about 3 years ago). One parlor (0-sized) guitar that I can recommend heartily is the one that I own and learned on, the Seagull Grand. It has a standard sized neck, a slightly shorter scale (24.9") than standard (25.5"), standard nut width (1 11/16"), solid cedar top, and laminated wild cherry back and sides. It has a great tone that belies its small size. It definitely holds its own in a jam room full of dreadnoughts, when played with a pick. I have Cleartone light gauge strings on mine, with solid brass d'Andrea bridge pins, and a clear pickguard. The Seagull Grand is moderately priced at about $370 list price (I got mine on sale for under $300): http://www.ezfolk.com/mf/acoustic-guitar/Seagull_Coastline_Grand_Acoustic_Guitar_Natural.html  Last edited on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 08:57 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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countrylady Approved
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Will wrote:[user=9691] The standard size guitar today is known as the dreadnought. Below the dreadnought in size is the auditorium (or "000"), the grand concert ("00"), and the parlor ("0") - this is a generalization, and not every guitar player may agree with it. Parlor guitars are considered "small body" guitars, reminiscent of the generally smaller sized guitars from a century ago. During the past few years, parlor guitars have become rather popular, and many companies now offer them, including Seagull, Fender, Washburn, etc. A small body guitar is easier to learn on, especially for beginners (I know it worked for me when I was a beginner, not that long ago; about 3 years ago). One parlor guitar that I can recommend heartily is the one that I own, the Seagull Grand. It has a standard sized neck, a slightly shorter scale (24.9") than standard (25.5"), standard nut width (1 11/16"), solid cedar top, and laminated wild cherry back and sides. It has a great tone that belies its small size. It definitely holds its own in a jam room full of dreadnoughts, when played with a pick. snip.>> Will, Thanks for the excellent information. I will check the Seagull out. It sounds like a good guitar for me.
____________________ Music loving g'ma |
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reggie miles Approved 
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Hey countrylady, No, there is no standardization of the size of a parlor guitar. The name simply refers to a period of guitar building long ago (late 1800s and early 1900s) when many makers were building guitars that had small bodies. The idea of building a large bodied guitar had not occurred to most makers of the time. Though, there were some exceptions. Most parlor sized guitars would work well with other larger type guitars today. Some of the older models that can still be had out there today could be set up with light guage silk and steel or standard light strings. Their small bodies probably wouldn't project quite as well as their newer larger counterparts but they would function fine. However, it should be noted that some of these old models were made back when gut strings were the rule and their delicate age and construction would make them less likely to be adequate for playing with steel strings. It really depends upon the quality and construction of the guitar. While many older guitars were built of materials that were very fine, there were also models made of lesser quality, just as there are today. There were some very good makers of parlor sized guitars back then. Martin guitars had three different sized models in those days. Two were considered parlor sized, the "0" and the "00". Their "000" was the largest that they had available at that time but it is still smaller than their "D" sized models of today. Martin also made parlor sized guitars for other companies. Every maker had their own dimensions for the shape of their guitars. These differences in construction along with variances in quality are what separated each maker. Parlor sized remakes today share the same smaller body sizes of their older predecessors. Though today these guitars are not as delicate. They are more ruggedly made and heavily built to hold up to the tension of steel strings. A good quality parlor sized guitar today would be a good choice for someone who struggles with the size of most of the guitars available today. I think Martin might be making a a reissue model but I'm not certain. You can still find old Martin parlor guitars for sale. As a matter of fact I saw several parlor sized guitars just the other day in a used guitar store near my home. I own one or two of those old parlor guitars. One was built by Martin for another company, Wurlitzer, way back in the mid 1920s. The other one, like so many made long ago, has no name but looks as though it will sound wonderful once I get it fixed up. As to your instructor's comments about Baby Taylors. I've owned one of these and I'd have to disagree. I think that they work fine when jamming along with others playing larger sized models. Due to their unique design, they actually have quite a nice voice of their own. Furthermore, these guitars are reasonably priced in used condition. Are you concerned about this aspect because you are considering playing with others in acoustic jams? Silk and steel strings are a good choice for beginners. They are easier on your fingers than standard steel strings and are a good compromise between nylon and steel strings. They would also work well on older or new parlor guitars. Many older guitars were not built as heavily or with the same kind of inner reinforcement construction designs as guitars are made with today. So, one must take care to not cause undue harm to them by using too heavy a string gauge. Be mindful of that if you should decide on purchasing an older model parlor guitar. If you like I could find out more about the parlor sized models that I saw at that store near here and pass along the info to you.
____________________ http://cdbaby.com/all/reggiemiles http://www.myspace.com/reggiemiles http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/reggiemiles http://www.freewebs.com/reggie_miles http://www.geocities.com/nobro2 |
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countrylady Approved
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reggie miles wrote:Hey countrylady, Hi Reggie, Thanks for the excellent information. Right now I am leaning towards a Seagull Coastline Grand because it seems to be good quality, it is made in N. America and it has a small neck at 1 7/10 inches. That should work well for me. If you are going to be at that store, I would appreciate the information, but don't go out of your way. On another note, and probably not a parlor sized guitar, I saw a Dean Acoustic, model # DA- I5 in an on line auction, looked to be in excellent shape and will go for under $100. Do you know anything about them? I can't find anything online yet about that particular model. Thanks for your help. 
____________________ Music loving g'ma |
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reggie miles Approved
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Hey countrylady, I'm afraid that I have little wisdom to share about specific newer makes and models. But thanks to Will's post of the body shape chart, I now know that my mid 20s Martin is a Grand Concert Standard. That bit of wisdom is something that has stumped many a Martin dealer that I've tried to glean info from for many years. I guess with so many new models in production there's a lot to keep track of in their lineup. Thanks Will! Reg
____________________ http://cdbaby.com/all/reggiemiles http://www.myspace.com/reggiemiles http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/reggiemiles http://www.freewebs.com/reggie_miles http://www.geocities.com/nobro2 |
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Will Approved
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countrylady wrote: On another note, and probably not a parlor sized guitar, I saw a Dean Acoustic, model # DA- I5 in an on line auction, looked to be in excellent shape and will go for under $100. Do you know anything about them? I can't find anything online yet about that particular model. I don't think the Dean DA-15 is a guitar - I looked that up, and that's the model for a guitar amplifier. Most guitars priced at around $100 have laminated wood tops. All Seagull guitars (including the Grand Coastline) are made with solid wood tops (mostly cedar, with some spruce models); their cedar tops are made from huge, naturally-felled old growth trees that are said to be 600-800 years old from the Canadian forests. Solid top guitars sound better the more they are played; cedar improves its sound at a much faster rate than a similar design spruce top guitar. If you can get a good solid top guitar that plays well at a reasonable price, it's worth the investment. Last edited on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 04:16 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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countrylady Approved
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Will wrote: : I don't think the Dean DA-15 is a guitar - I looked that up, and that's the model for a guitar amplifier. Most guitars prices at around $100 have laminated wood tops. All Seagull guitars (including the Grand Coastline) are made with solid wood tops (mostly cedar, with some spruce models); the cedar tops are made from huge, naturally-felled old growth trees that are said to be 600-800 years old from the Canadian forests. Solid top guitars sound better the more they are played; cedar improves its sound at a much faster rate than a similar design spruce top guitar. If you can get a good solid top guitar that plays well at a reasonable price, it's worth the investment. HI Will, This is what it says, "Dean Acoustic Guitar w Mother of Pearl +Case (3316258)" One of the pictures showed the inside of the guitar and I was able to make out the numbers inside. 
____________________ Music loving g'ma |
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Will Approved
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countrylady wrote: HI Will, This is what it says, "Dean Acoustic Guitar w Mother of Pearl +Case (3316258)" One of the pictures showed the inside of the guitar and I was able to make out the numbers inside. http://www.shopgoodwill.org/viewItem.asp?ItemID=3316258 According to what I saw, it's a used guitar, probably a low-end one, made of laminated wood. I wouldn't recommend it. A more affordable version of the Seagull Coastline Grand is made by Art & Lutherie, a different division of the same parent company (Godin Guitars) that owns Seagull. This guitar, also with a solid cedar top, is known as the AMI, and it sells for $249: http://www.piccolosmusic.com/A&L.html  The AMI has gotten very favorable reviews by members of this forum: http://www.ezfolk.com/forums/forum32/1764.html If the AMI seems to be a better choice for you, be sure to request the model with the solid cedar top; it more commonly comes in a cheaper version with a laminated top made of wild cherry.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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countrylady Approved
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Will wrote: According to what I saw, it's a used guitar, probably a low-end one, made of laminated wood. I wouldn't recommend it.>> Ok, I'll pass on that one. Can't find out enough about it to know size or anything anyway. <<A more affordable version of the Seagull Coastline Grand is made by Art & Lutherie, a different division of the same parent company (Godin Guitars) that owns Seagull. This guitar, also with a solid cedar top, is known as the AMI, and it sells for $249: snip The AMI has gotten very favorable reviews by members of this forum: [snip.. If the AMI seems to be a better choice for you, be sure to request the model with the solid cedar top; it more commonly comes in a cheaper version with a laminated top made of wild cherry.>>/quote]: guitar1: More good tips. thanks for taking the time. I'm going to be playing my own guitar before you know it. guitar1:
____________________ Music loving g'ma |
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Totoro Approved
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Speaking of parlor guitars, did you read the review of the Santa Cruz Firefly (parlor guitar) in the March 2008 issue of Guitar Player? The reviewer said it is the best guitar he has ever played in his life. By the sounds of the article, the reviewer has been around for quite a few decades. Anyway, you can have this beauty for only $6K, plus or minus a grand. Last edited on Fri Feb 1st, 2008 08:35 pm by Totoro |
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schultzoo Approved
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Hi--I'm a new member but a long time lurker! I just recently bought an A&L Ami parlor guitar and I'm really happy with it. I just play at home, I'm far from playing out in public, and originally bought a Takamine dreadnought, but it was just too big for me. I realize the sound of the Ami is not the same, but it's certainly fine for my needs, and I'll probably have it for a long time. I also have a Lucida Picado LG797 flamenco guitar for my classical work. I'll probably never sell that one either--it's beautiful and sounds great. Good luck! Debbie
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UkeForever Approved 
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I was told by my instructor to stay away from "travel" size guitars and the baby Taylors because the sound range is different than other guitars and you can't play with other people with full sized guitars. You can find Parlor guitars with 24" scales. Travel size instruments sometimes don't intone that well--that's the only issue I'd have with them. As for Parlors, a few good ones have been mentioned by fellow ezFolkers. If you're considering getting a "keeper" that is a good in-between the big-bodied dreadnaught guitar and the grand concert size, I'd suggest the 000 or OM size. Larrivee, in particular, has some excellent solid spruce (top), mahogany (back and sides) that are quite excellent price-wise and sound-wise. There are several Chinese/overseas brands that are getting quite a bit of acclaim--Blueridge and Morgan Monroe seem to garner the most praise, and then you have other brands like Walden, Crafter, Recording King. Oh, and the Guild GAD series makes some fantastic sounding instruments in the OM size as well. The more "solid" you can get on a guitar, the better. I pretty much did sloppy strumming for my first 20 years of guitar playing, but once I began doing a lot more fingerpicking, the muddy-sounding dreadnaught was not as pleasing to play. So I recently picked up a Larrivee OM-03RE. It's a fantastic instrument in every way. I'd easily compare it with the OM-Martin series (I think the 21) that goes for twice as much. Larrivee is Canadian, and so is Art & Lutherie, Seagull, and Simon & Patrick (the last three are all brand names owned by Godin). All guilt-free guitars, in my opinion! Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 12:51 am by UkeForever ____________________ Don't let the door hit 'ya where the good Lord split 'ya. John Rockwell's Crazy Songs 
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countrylady Approved
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schultzoo wrote:Hi--I'm a new member but a long time lurker! I just recently bought an A&L Ami parlor guitar and I'm really happy with it. I just play at home, I'm far from playing out in public, and originally bought a Takamine dreadnought, but it was just too big for me. I realize the sound of the Ami is not the same, but it's certainly fine for my needs, and I'll probably have it for a long time. I also have a Lucida Picado LG797 flamenco guitar for my classical work. I'll probably never sell that one either--it's beautiful and sounds great. Good luck! Debbie I ended up getting the Seagull Parlor. I love it.. I bet is similar to yours. I think it sounds nice.. so don't know if that is the same or not.
____________________ Music loving g'ma |
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Will Approved
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countrylady wrote: schultzoo wrote: Congratulations on your purchase of the Seagull Grand parlor guitar, the same model I bought 4 years ago. You'll find it to be an excellent instrument with a rich tone from the solid cedar top, that improves with greater playing time. One thing to keep in mind... cedar is a very soft wood that is easily prone to scratches and dings. If you play guitar with a pick, you should consider getting at least a clear adhesive pickguard installed below the sound hole. Your local music store should be able to install one for you. Two additional tonal improvements that you can consider later on, after you've played your guitar a lot, and your original strings begin to corrode and lose their tonal richness, are: 1) Cleartone strings (coated with a tough ultra-thin substance that greatly slows corrosion), and 2) solid brass bridge pins to anchor the strings. After installing Cleartone strings and the brass bridge pins, I was amazed by how much deeper and resonant the Seagull guitar sounded. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cleartone-Coated-Acoustic-Guitar-Strings-Light?sku=100944  http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/DAndrea-Tone-Pins-Brass-Bridge-Pins?sku=364789  Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 01:40 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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theBlackman Approved 
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I agree Will, the brass pins on some guitars really make a difference. After your discussion of them a month or so ago, I got a set (the same ones shown) and installed them. The sustain of tonality is at least a 50 percent increase on my '72 Takamine, without "brightening" the sound and the resonance on the bass went up a hair. I'm quite happy with them. Thanks for the in depth "study" you made earlier. They really do a great job, at least on my guitar. I'm thinking of trying 2 sets on my 12. Dusty
____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman |
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Will Approved
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I tried the brass bridge pins on several of my 12-strings, but they made the tone a bit too bright and I put the Tusq pins back on. I have concluded that maple body guitars and 12-strings didn't really benefit from the brass bridge pin, but they did improve the tone of most of my other guitars. http://www.ezfolk.com/forums/forum16/3820.html All of the d'Andrea solid brass bridge pins are now on sale at Musician's Friend, including the fancy inlaid ones - @ $10/set of 6. Yes, you can now get the abalone and mother-of-pearl versions for the same price as the solid brass pins. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/DAndrea-Tone-Pins-Brass-Bridge-Pins?sku=364789     Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 03:50 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ |
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Will Approved
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