 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Not logged in - | |
| Moderated by: Richard Hefner | Page:   1 2 3   |
|
|||||||||||||
| Any 12-string players amongst us? - General Guitar - Guitar - ezFolk Forums | |||||||||||||||
| Author | Post | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||||||||||||
|
theBlackman Approved 
|
I used to, but when I quit playing I sold my Gibson (j-450 or somtihing like that) to a friend. I picked up a used Yamaha (1990 model) about a year ago and am slowly getting back into it. Just bought a new set of strings today, in fact.
____________________ Let each day start as a blank page for life to write upon. http://ezfolk.com/audio/dusty http://cdbaby.com/all/theblackman http://youtube.com/DustinFLeer |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
ThirdRatePoet Approved 
|
holleyhall wrote:I bought my Yamaha 12 string back in the 80's. I like it better than 6 string but its nice to be able switch off once in a while. I like the full sound. Yamaha 12 strings appear to be indestructible!  It's curious (well, to me!) that the 12 string has a sort of double personality - for every lush jangly sound, it has an almost percussive disharmonic equivalent. I suppose you could say the same of any guitar up to a point, but that big wash of sound from a 12 string just makes it all the more poignant somehow. The way someone like Blind Willie McTell plays his guitar is a million miles from the sweet 'Nashville' string set up. Dan
____________________ ezFolk My Website iTunes - 'The Folks Underground' |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
wab7254 Approved 
|
I love my 12 string almost more than anything. I too have a seagull 12 string and i love it. It gives a great folk sound to almost any song. Try playing some Appalachan tunes on it like Tennessee Waltz, Kentuck Waltz, or more modern songs like Dust in the Wind, and anything by Chet Atkins,
____________________ "Lyrics are just wasted time between solos." -? "I'd sell my woman before id sell my geetar." |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Will Approved 
|
I own two 12-string guitars, a Seagull S12+ cedar top, and a Guild GAD-G212 spruce top. I love playing them. After practicing on the 12-string for a while, playing a 6-string seems a lot easier. Last edited on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 04:36 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
holleyhall Approved 
|
Hi Will If you havent already , you should try using silk and steel strings on your 12 string gutiars for 2 reasons; easier on the fingers and it also saves a lot of tension and wear on the neck. A good repair shop told me I would not need to adjust the neck as often if I used silk & steel. I used to use bronze strings but it destroyed my frets that ended up having to be repaired and they killed my fingers!! I find my 12 string with silk & Steel is a lot more comfortable to play now than my 6 with the bronze strings. Holley  Last edited on Wed Oct 4th, 2006 11:53 pm by holleyhall ____________________ http://ezfolk.com/audio/holleyhall |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Will Approved
|
Hi, Holley: That's an interesting idea. I've never tried silk and steel strings. I have enough guitars where I can try them out. However, I generally play guitar with a pick at a jam or with a band. I can't really play fingerstyle; I use only my thumb if I want to play quietly. Do silk and steel strings hold up well if played with a pick? Thanks.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
holleyhall Approved
|
Hi Will, I use a pick all the time and have no problems at all. Both Martin & Dadario make a good silk & steel for 12 string I have used quite often and cost are reasonable. Let me know when you try them how they worked out for you. Holley
____________________ http://ezfolk.com/audio/holleyhall |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
bigdog12 Approved 
|
Great Forum here...and glad to see a 12 string thread. Have a Martin D12X1, best 12 I have ever owned for $500.00 range. I like the silk & steels when tuned to pitch but also enjoy the Martin SP XL tuned down to "D". Doug
____________________ Doug |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved 
|
The luthier I used to work for did a lot of 6-to-12 string conversions before he skipped town. He had this bug in his bonnet about tuning board design that sounded great but just didn't. His concept was to have the tuning board open, like a nylon-strung guitar. And to compenate for the reduction in mass (i.e., strenght) was to make the tuning board longer. He would cut the tuning boards to a rectangular stump. Cut new hardwood to become the new open 12-stringboard. Then glue and clamp it all together. He insisted on a glue called IRON Glue as the adhesive. I would have used dowls... or buried iron rods. But I didn't get to vote. A teenager came in with his heart's delight, a vintage Gibson JS-185, the model with the Maltese crosses inlayed in the bridge. (The disaster train began to leave the station.) The kid wanted the 185 to become a 12-string. Not in itself a terrible idea. I wouldn't done it. But still, this big guitar would make a dandy 12-stringer. The luthier (sic) drilled a second run of holes through the bridge sligthly offset and behind from the existing strings. As I recall they barely fit. Then he removes the characteristic Maltese crosses and installed flush safeyl bolts and replaces the crosses. That was actually pretty good thinking (the safety bolts, that is). But when he took the guitar over to the bandsaw and the maple dust began to fly, the fireman on the disaster tain began to shovel on the coal. Cut, shape, glue, clamp...(the train is now highballing into the night) Drive peg holes, insert, screw down... (the whistle is now screaming clear the track, clear the track) I'll be switched...it looked gorgious! His vission was spectacular. Instinct was still constricting my sphincter. (The bartender in the club car was setting them up and the passengers were knocking them down) It no longer fit into it's plush arch top top-of-the-line Gibson alligator case. (The train is approaching a retrograde.) The luthier proclaims the job complete. And calls the kid to come for it, bring cash. (The engineer tests his breaks...) The kid comes up. Silence. The luthier hands him the guitar and expects to be handed a wad. The kids father came along with an attitude of "I think this whole idea sucks, and if you think I'll let you bulldoze my boy, you better have a plan-B." The father tells the kid to tune it up and play a while. (The engineer looks at the fireman. No need to say the obvious. THe brakes have failed.) The kid tunes up. He tunes three-frets flat, which many 12-stringer did then and still do. It holds fine. I take a shallow breath. (The engineer knows he can't slow down, but the track is clear... maybe... just maybe...) The luthier say, "Naw. Crank it up to pitch." (I am screaming "Don't!" in my head.) The tuning board separates with a gunshot roar/snap/pop and arches around the room hitting the luthier in the head. (A slow milk train is on the track up ahead.) The fatherpicks up the luthier (who was actually taller than he was.) He shakes him (imagine a terrierr with a rat) and says that guitar cost a bundle. He expect the money in his hand in an hour. Or his ass is grass. "Bullshit," says the luthier. It's a chance you take on a job like this." Not a wise choice of words considering... the father punched the luthier in the belly and say "55 minutes." (The train is a quarter mile from the milk train.) The father and son leave. The boy is crying. The father is slapping him in the back of the head down the block. The luthier tosses me the keys and says, "Close up." I never saw him again. He just walked away. Well, his reputation was shot. He wasn't making much if any money. He just walked away. I packed up my tools and picked up the wreakaage of the kids guitar, locked up and waited downstairs. The father and kid return. "Where is he?" "Gone and I don't know where." I gave the kid the wreackage of his guitar. But I had salvaged the cut off portion of the tuning board. And I suggested he contact Gibson directly. It cost a bundle, but Gibson fixed it good as new at least structually. They replaced the tuning board. It was a little smaller when it came back. And they used dowls to make sure it would never give again. They left the cut marks in the tuning board face at the father's instrctions. It was a lesson to kid. (And to me.) All that custom work was about what a new JS-185 cost back then. Oh, the train wreck. Hasn't happened yet, as far as I know. It would happen when the kid's father caught up with the luthier. --- Eiplogue: There were a handful of other guitars waiting in shop. I went back the next day and took them home. I knew the landlord would play hardball over the rent and sieze anything of value. He could have the tools. They weren't mine anyway. But the guitars, their various states of chaos had to go home. It was only a few phones to make. And the last of the guitars was out on my hands in two days. I leanrd a lot. Principally, never trust IRON Glue. Or to try to sell something that doesn't work. Last edited on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 08:20 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Will Approved
|
Phil, That's a great luthier's story you've posted. For the money that the unfortunate boy wasted, he could have just bought a separate 12 string. Or was that far back enough when Gibson didn't yet make a 12-string version of the J-185? A new Gibson J-185 12-strings costs about $2,100 nowadays: http://www.music123.com/Gibson-J185-12-String---Acoustic-Guitar-i152366.music
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Will wrote: Phil,Thanks... and it's all true. That loft space we worked out of was a fine placefor really good musiciansto come by and jam, hang out while we worked on repairs and restorations. No money it it. The luthier was awful as a businessman and not all that much better with tools. (I can still hear the sound of the tuning board giving way.) As I recall, Gibson did not have a 12-string. I think this was 65 or 5. Not sure if Martin did. When the Martin 12-string hit the market is was big news. Guild had one I think. There were plywood Kay's around. Leadbelly played one. I went to the site. The kidswas sunburst, but that's it without the open tuing board. Last edited on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 09:04 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Idle hands and a legal copy of Photoshop: this is what the head of the J-185 looked like... momentarily.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Idle hands and a legal copy of Photoshop: this is what the head of the J-185 looked like... momentarily.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Idle hands and a legal copy of Photoshop: this is what the head of the J-185 looked like... momentarily. Attachment: J185-12-string-head.gif (Downloaded 33 times)
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
Will Approved
|
Philj200 wrote: As I recall, Gibson did not have a 12-string. I think this was 65 or 5. Not sure if Martin did. When the Martin 12-string hit the market is was big news. Guild had one I think. There were plywood Kay's around. Leadbelly played one. From an article that I read, Dave Guard of the original Kingston Trio owned Gibson's very first 12-string guitar, in 1960 (Guard left the Trio in 1961), by his own special request, Gibson converted a jumbo 6 string (similar or the same model that the Everly Brothers played). http://users2.ev1.net/~smyth/linernotes/trio_1/recrdngs/CDP96835.htm Guild had established their name by creating a line of maple body jumbo 12-strings during the mid-1950's; John Denver played Guild jumbo 12-strings and 6-strings through the 1970's and early 80's before he switched over to Taylors. Martin made their 12-strings during the early 60's, in response to their competitors. Leadbelly played a Stella 12-string, which dated back to the 1930's. He tuned his instrument unusually low (because only heavy gauge strings were available back then). Here's a great article on the history of the 12-string, posted by luthier Frank Ford at his web site: Twelve String Power http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/History/12string/12stOrigins.html
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Will Approved
|
Philj200 wrote: As I recall, Gibson did not have a 12-string. I think this was 65 or 5. Not sure if Martin did. When the Martin 12-string hit the market is was big news. Guild had one I think. There were plywood Kay's around. Leadbelly played one. From an article that I read, Dave Guard of the original Kingston Trio owned Gibson's very first 12-string guitar, in 1960 (Guard left the Trio in 1961), by his own special request, Gibson converted a jumbo 6 string (similar or the same model that the Everly Brothers played). http://users2.ev1.net/~smyth/linernotes/trio_1/recrdngs/CDP96835.htm Guild had established their name by creating a line of maple body jumbo 12-strings during the mid-1950's; John Denver played Guild jumbo 12-strings and 6-strings through the 1970's and early 80's before he switched over to Taylors. Martin made their 12-strings during the early 60's, in response to their competitors. Leadbelly played a Stella 12-string, which dated back to 1912. He tuned his instrument unusually low (because only heavy gauge strings were available back then). Here's a great article on the history and impact of the 12-string guitar, posted by luthier Frank Ford at his web site: Twelve String Power http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/History/12string/12stOrigins.html
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Kay, Stella... I always confused those girls. Dave Guard, was he the tallish guy who mostley played a LN Vega? He was the one who left the Trio and emigrated to Australia (as I recall). Glen Campbell really could play the 12-string! He had a dexterity with a flat-pick on the instrument that bordered on the astounding. On that rediculous program Hootenany! he was one of the regulars and basically shamed the glossier 'name' acts week after week. (Long before Tanya Tucker changed his priorities.) John Denver? I'm drawing a complete blank on his musician's skills.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
|
Will Approved
|
Philj200 wrote: Kay, Stella... I always confused those girls. Dave Guard was the tall fellow who played the Vega long neck banjo and guitar (usually a Martin 00-21), who left the Kingston Trio in 1961, and was replaced by John Stewart. During the early 60's, Glen Campbell was already well known in the recording industry as a virtuoso studio guitarist before he became a solo artist and singer. In fact, Glen played on some Kingston Trio studio recordings, including a 12-string banjo part on "Desert Pete." Years ago, my mother bought a cassette of "The Astounding 12-String Guitar of Glen Campbell," a long out-of-print album from early 60's. I'll have to convert that tape to a CD. John Denver played the 12-string on most of his songs, mostly fingerstyle (he wore a thumbpick). Here's a video posted at YouTube of "Starwood In Aspen," one of his original compositions, played on his Guild 12-string from the early 70's: If the above doesn't work, go to this URL and scroll down to the "Starwood In Aspen" link: http://video.yahoo.com/video/search?p=john+denver&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=&b=11
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
|
Philj200 Approved
|
Will, I keep meaning to ask you, did you paint your avatar?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
