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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner |
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| Musical Saw... a moribund instrument | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 06:27 pm |
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1st Post |
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Philj200 Approved 
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The rather odd photograph was shot 10/6/07 at Brooklyn’s historic Green-Wood Cemetery. They have a motto: “Visit us while you can still leave.” Many famous and infamous people are interred there… I shot a few of Aaron Burr’s tomb. There is a huge Civil and Revolutionary War section (148,000 dead in the ACW section alone). Did I mention this is a huge place. It also has grants to keep it in good condition (it is) and to have events in context. To that end they had a program called Angels and Accordions. As any guitar picker, I have a low opinion of accordions. Maybe not any longer. They had dancers throughout the cemetery accompanied by mostly accordions and a few other instruments. The dancing was on a theme of ascendance to heaven, resurrection and renewal of the human spirit. It was very sedate and respectful. And free. Seated on one of the mausoleums was a dancer, an accordion and a musical saw. It sounded great. Unearthly… almost like a Theremann. (If I spelled that right.) When was the last time any of us heard a musical saw played? Attachment: musical saw1.jpg (Downloaded 63 times) Last edited on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 08:22 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 08:09 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Will Approved 
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I actually observed the musical saw being played at a Kingston Trio concert in 2004, by Bob Haworth, shown below (who later left the group in 2005 for a solo career).  I agree that it does sound somewhat like the theremin. For readers who are unfamiliar with the theremin - it's one of the first electronic instruments ever made. It was used in the Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations" (you'll hear its unearthly whining sound over the refrain "... I'm thinkin' of good vibrations... she's giving me excitations...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin  Léon Theremin playing an early theremin Last edited on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 09:03 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 08:46 pm |
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3rd Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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If my (failing) memory serves, we've got a saw-er right here on ezFolk. Somewhere out around Seatle, if I got it right. Brad Last edited on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 11:53 pm by banjo brad ____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 09:08 pm |
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4th Post |
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Will Approved
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banjo brad wrote: If my (failing) memory serves, we've got a saw-er right here on ezFolk. No, Brad, your memory's good... That would be Reggie Miles: http://www.ezfolk.com/forums/forum26/1002-2.html Last edited on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 09:09 pm by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 10:43 pm |
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5th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I Googled Musical Saws. They are alive and well and hiding among us. I saw ful size saws ranging in price from$50+/- up to $110+/-. I was tempted. I even trucked out an old rusty cross-cut saw I don't use any more and couldn't get it to squeak. I used a violin boa and plenty of rosin. THe e-literature mentions putting a double tension on the saw that I might now have got the nack ot. I'll try again. I have a cello bow hanging out (how that got into my basement is another story). I wonder if that might work better? Any ideas? One of the sites actual markets both musical saws and theremins. Go figure. In another part of the e-literature is mentions that several countries all over the world suddenly started playing them. That suggests aliens sawing among us. Last edited on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 08:21 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2007 08:58 pm |
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6th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I got a PM from an non-member who plays the saw wanting to know if I knew the identity of the woman playing. Alas, I do not, but suggested contacting the PR people at Green-Wood for information on the people performing there that day. She also mentioned a saw concert in July (that far away!) in Astoria, NY. No, only sawyers are invited to the jam after the concert (I asked). Made me think. So I went back on line, read a little more. It seems that heavier bows were touted at one site. They sold cello bows and claimed that that's the minimum wiehgt and suggested bass bows as better. They sold both. Neither seemed excessively expensive. Not ready to dive into the deep end of saw dust pile yet... but I like to tinker, so I dug up the cello bow that's hiding in my basement, refound the old rusty cross-cut saw, I already my fiddle-rosin handy, made a handle... and set to it. It seems that a handle up at the end of the saw blade and at right angles to it makes controlling the critter easier. Okay. Son of a buzz saw... it worked! Took a lot of rosin to produce very little volume. But I was able to get sustained tone and was able to vary it by flexing the saw blade more or less. In the promotional material, it said that the saws sold for music are thinner and more pliable... make that playable. I think a thinner blade would help a lot. More to come... assuming the finger count remains constant.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2007 09:21 pm |
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7th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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"I got a PM from an non-member who plays the saw wanting to know if I knew the identity of the woman playing. Alas, I do not, but suggested contacting the PR people at Green-Wood for information on the people performing there that day." Phil- On first glance, I thought it might be a guy playing saw with a mourning veil on. I went back and looked and it seems I might be right. If you look, it looks like the forearms are a little hairier than a female might have, and the musculature seems more male-like. Several other clues like shoes and the tattoo on the deltoid makes me think it was a guy hiding his identity to fit in with the other 2. Or, I'm wrong! Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11th, 2007 09:38 pm |
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8th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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You could be right. Most of the dancers were women. About half the musicians were. I didn't look all that closely. The veil, etc. The saw in this case was heavily amplified. But this was a large outdoor setting so it had to be. It's sound rode on top of the accordion. I've learned that the choreography and score were all original... except for some period pieces woven in. It worked very nicely. ---- I went back and found I had another view: It is a women. The red finger nails and the breasts seem to do it for me. I don't see any tats... but these days, it's hard to find someone without them. Attachment: sawyer crop.jpg (Downloaded 48 times) Last edited on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 09:48 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12th, 2007 02:15 am |
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9th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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You win! Check the first picture you posted - the upper right bicep. Looks like one of them tribal tattoos (or maybe barbed wire  )I'm not a fan of tattoos, myself. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12th, 2007 02:56 am |
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10th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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There certainly is something going around her bicep. Some people don't have tats for reasons of faith. They say that if you're created in God's image, than a tatoo is altering that image, a form of blasphemy. I don't care for them on estethic reasons. I never like looking at the same picture for too long.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14th, 2007 05:01 am |
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11th Post |
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sandman Approved 
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Philj200 wrote: I don't care for them on estethic reasons. I never like looking at the same picture for too long. I guess it depends on where you have them.  The three women next door need a mirror to check their tats out. Sandy
____________________ Leap into the boundless and make it your own. Zhuang-zi |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 12:58 am |
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12th Post |
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Charlie Approved 
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Phil, I had a math teacher in school that played the saw and was very good at it and he showed us how to do it, but I did not have a very good saw to work with, I have used a hammer that you use for a hammered dulcimer and peck at it. I notice that the she or he has a handle that bolts to the end and that would give you good leveage on putting the twist to the saw as I just used my fingers, My try that. Five of us sailors went to town once to get tattoo's and I was the only one not drunk and did not get one, I have talked to them the last few years and they wished they had not. Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 03:21 pm |
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13th Post |
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reggie miles Approved 
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Hey Will and Brad, Thanks for thinkin' of me. Yup, guilty as charged. I am that saw player from the Seattle area. Sawry that I found this post so late but I'll try to address some of the concerns. I've been hosting a musical saw workshop for the last 5 years at our local Folklife Festival that happens every Memorial Day weekend. This year will be my 6th. In the course of my many years of attempting to tame the unruly blade I've answered most every question offered about this curious musical folk art. Philj200, besides simple practice at the art form, you should try to use a stickier rosin. In my experience, this single factor has helped enormously. I've found violin rosin to be too powdery to help the hairs of my bow readily grab the edge of the saw blade. A missed note in the middle of a melody won't help my presentation. So, using stickier bass rosin really offered the best assurance. I use a brand called Pops. It comes in a red plastic cylindrical container that's easy to spot when you go looking for it among the more high brow offerings in the music stores that cater to those who play violins and such. Any kind of bow will do to play a saw. Yes, you can also strike it with a mallet or soft hammer but the saw really responds well when played with a bow, any kind of bow. The choice as to what kind to use is a subjective one based upon any number of factors. No one bow works any better than any other. It's a saw, afterall not a multimillion dollar Stradivarius. Though there is this Swedish company, Sandvik, that has been making a musical saw called the Stradivarius. It's a very good musical saw too. Yes, there are companies that have been producing 'musical' saws for many decades. The earliest that I know of is a small mom and pop company from Southern Wisconsin called, Mussehl and Westphal. They been producing their own line of musical saws since the 1920s. What makes musical saws differ from regular wood cutting tools. Well, there are a number of differences that I could spell out but suffice it to say they are better able to reproduce musical tones than their other more labor oriented cousins. However, in my poking and prodding around at various places where old hand saws are resold, I have found, that if you're looking for a regular saw to make music with, try to find a Sandvik. There's something about the quality of their steel that makes even their least expensive plastic handled saw offerings good candidates for music making. Charlie, I was doing substitute teaching full time for about three years. I often brought my saw into the classes. Years later, I was approached by a former student while playing on the street at our local market. She explained that she had a teacher who used to play saw in her class room. I asked her where she attended school and when she told me I responded, "Oh, that was me." She answered in an incredulous tone that it couldn't have been. It's funny how different surroundings and not cutting off your hair for long while can alter someone's memories. ;o) Sawwwwwww ya l8r, Reg vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
____________________ http://cdbaby.com/all/reggiemiles http://www.myspace.com/reggiemiles http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/reggiemiles http://www.freewebs.com/reggie_miles http://www.geocities.com/nobro2 |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 04:04 pm |
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14th Post |
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Charlie Approved
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Reggie, Thanks for the imformation about the saws, Is it more of a solo instrument or can you search out a key like we do on other instruments to play in a group I have played one as I stated before around the house, But never tried to play with anyone else or a group. Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 07:58 pm |
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15th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I think just bending the saw a little more and/or bowing a little higher or lower on the saw blade. I assume capos are out of the question.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 08:52 pm |
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16th Post |
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Will Approved
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The musical saw must be the only instrument that can be sharp and flat at the same time.  Does the blade have to have teeth? If not, the music can still bite. A toast to Reggie Miles and other musicians who are able to play this unique instrument. 
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 04:49 pm |
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17th Post |
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reggie miles Approved
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Hey Charlie, While I do most of my playing as a solo. The saw works wonderfully in conjunction with other instruments. I've played with many other folks playing with many other instruments. The saw has a very feminine quality to its voice. So, while the idea of 'working' with a saw is often associated as being a manly labor, I liken my involvement with saw 'playing' as getting in touch with my feminine side. I especially enjoy mixing my saw playing with female voices singing in harmony. I can easily find harmonizing notes when playing along with even the most accomplished singers. I've played with blues players, bluegrass players, folk music, rock ballads. You name it and I've probably tried it. I enjoy playing popular melodies when I perform alone. The only limitation that I find about playing the saw is the speed at which I can adequately accompany others. I think that a slow to medium song pace is best. At this speed the saw can really shine. When playing quicker songs it becomes a real challenge to keep up. One must consider that flexing the razor sharp spring steel teeth of the hand tool mere millimeters from body parts both near and dear can make concentration a problem. Many body parts don't grow back, ya know. Hence this is why so many saw players knees quiver with the torment of torturous trepidation whilst trying to tame the unruly blade. No my friends, this musical folk art form is not for the faint of heart. Nevertheless, I persevere, proudly providing a prodigious pallet of pleasing panache. Sawwwwwwww ya l8r, Reg vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Last edited on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 03:47 am by reggie miles ____________________ http://cdbaby.com/all/reggiemiles http://www.myspace.com/reggiemiles http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/reggiemiles http://www.freewebs.com/reggie_miles http://www.geocities.com/nobro2 |
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