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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner | Page: 1 2   |
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| Chords on the dulcimer | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2005 06:53 pm |
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1st Post |
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Philj200 Approved 
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A few weeks ago a dulcimer literally fell into my lap. I asked on line for advice and was told about some really good websites which taught me a lot. And confused me a bit too. It seems the instrument I have is of the type called "Short Scale" dulcimers. The instrument in about half-size and so is the fret board. I found several tuning variations including FCC as a recommended tuning for the short-scale instrument. It didn't sound right. So I tuned higher to GDD and it produced a sweet sound. Along the way, I realized that the previous owner had the instrument stung upside down. Dulcimers seem to want the bass string on the far side and the melody strings closest to the player's belly button. I also found about a dozen chord diagrams. I know the instrument is in tune (and so does my Koss tuner in chromatic mode). Yet the chords sound awful. The fretboard is accuracy (again varified by the Koss tuner). I can't figure out why they don't sound true. One thing I haven't gone into is the bridge placement. I'm using the octave system.I.E., the bridge is two octaves up from the nut. It's not the end of the world but it is nagging a bit. In the mean time, I've been playing with a noter (a short dowel cut at one end with a 45 degree bevel). It produces a sweet gliding sound with the second D and G strings as drones. It reminds quite a bit of bagpipes. Any ideas?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2005 07:17 pm |
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2nd Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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If the notes register true at the frets (via the tuner), then it is doubtfull the bridge is wrong. Make sure you are fretting the proper strings, i.e., haven't reversed the drone string frets. I don't play the dulcimer (yet), but I have seen threads where they talk about the (normal) tuning to be DAD - could those be the chord forms you are trying to use?  Keep on pickin'Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30th, 2005 07:38 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Good observation. I went back to the website and checked. The chords are for what's called the Ionian tuning DAA. That's one of the most standard tunings. On my instrument that would be GDD, but the intervals between notes are the same so they should sound true. I also searched out information of bridge placement and it is possible that mine is not as well situated as I believed. I'm at the office, so this will have to wait until this evening to double check. Having been bitten, I not want a full-sized instrument. A company called Jenny Wiley Dulcimers have affordable kits. They have two kinds. Almost-finished and Not-for-the-faint-of heart. Some much music. So little time.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Sat Oct 1st, 2005 02:21 am |
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4th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Oh, Oh, ... Post the link to the site, I am intrigued by the dulcimer and looking. A kit would be fantastic! Keep on pickin'Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 01:00 pm |
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5th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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This is the site I was thinking of http://www.jennywileydulcimers.com/ But I think StewMac has their own version. Kits seem to be available. But I also did an e-bay serach and found plenty of instruments at decent prices. On my little indstrument: I'ver checked and am sure that the chords are for the DAA tuning (GDD in my case because of the short fretboard). I've also checked the bridge (it was out of position but not by much). The chords just don't sound very good. Possibly it is because 40 years of much lusher guitar chords have interfered with my expectations. Besides, with the little frtboard, it's much more facile to pley with a noter which eliminates chords at all. I've been playing with fingerpcks (an idea from one of the boards) as well as a flatpick and just fingers. The finger picks give a nice banjoey cadence. Have worked out passable versions or Bonaparte's Retreat, The Lone Pilgrim and am working on Cripple Creek. Oddly hypnotic critter, the dulcimer.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 07:34 pm |
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6th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Those Jennys look nice, and the kit is almost down to my level. I agree with how you could become hypnotized by the little bugger, I love their sound. Post something soon so we can hear the little tyke. I think the modal tones of the drones  are the captivating sound. Keep on pickin'Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 07:36 pm |
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7th Post |
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Gail Lewis Approved 
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Hi Philj, I play the mountain dulcimer (have a few tunes posted here). Check "Everythingdulcimer.com" for all the info on how to play, etc. McSpadden "Ginger" is small and has thinner strings and is tuned higher. You might want to research that and see if it helps you. I play a full size and tune to DAd most of the time, so I can't help you with the short scale. I strum with a pick and make chords across all the strings. Sometimes I fingerpick. If you use a noter, you are playing melody and droning the other 2 strings--which is the traditional way to play. That works better with DAA (and higher relative) tunings. The chords may be only partial chords, or may be a note & drone. So they may not sound as full as a guitar. If the notes up the scale are in tune, then I wouldn't mess with the bridge. Maybe you just need to get used to the sound of a dulcimer. Good luck in your progress! 
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| Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 07:45 pm |
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8th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Hi Gail and Brad, Everything dulcimer is a great site. I've been through it page by page (I'm thorough kind of cuss). I'm not all that sure if I can record anything with my antique computer at home. That will change in the near future (I hope). I tried to go through a camcorder but couldn't isolate the audio. I'll post a picture with measurements if that prompts anymore information. The noter and a flat-pick is the way I usually play it. The noter is simply a 3/5" dowl, about 2-1/2" long. Cut flush at one end and at 45 degrees on the other. The angled side is the one that touches the strings. Added a few minutes later: Went back to Everything dulcimer and only one tune was listed Hector The Hero. A nice finger-picked piece. Very clean. Last edited on Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 07:49 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 08:39 pm |
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9th Post |
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Charlie Approved 
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Brad, I just ordered me a dulcimer kit this morning From Stew-Mac, I got the tear drop version, I have built 2 or 3 before and they come out good and had a beautiful sound to them, The kit cost about $100. and they are walnut and really finish out good, I sold the others but have been wanting another one, I bought a Apple Creek and it was no good at all and very cheap made. Was made of ply wood. The differnce in the tear drop and the hour glass is that you have to shape the head on the tear drop version and install the frets and that is why it is less money, But I have done it before and came out good and I like the tone on the tear drop. Thought I would just pass this info on if you were thinking about building one. Charlie 
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005 11:58 pm |
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10th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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I am , have been, and will probably continue to consider building one, but it is in the future at the moment ($$$). The one thing I would look for is friction pegs, not geared tuners (more 'traditional' look), and probably just the 3 strings, not 4. But, I have been known to change my mind from time to time  (even us old curmudeons have that right, right?).I am still working on my other brother to give me his dulcimer - he built it himself many years ago (60's-70's). It is the more appalachian style hour glass shape, with friction pegs. A sweet instrument, and he doesn't really play it, so-o-o-o-o. Keep on pickin'Brad ps. Here's the link to the: http://www.everythingdulcimer.com site Last edited on Tue Oct 4th, 2005 12:00 am by banjo brad ____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2005 12:17 am |
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11th Post |
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Gail Lewis Approved
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Brad, I would advise against friction pegs. Geared tuners aren't traditional, but for all the tuning you do on a dulcimer, it is the way to go. Friction pegs slip! Maybe you know of some that hold the tuning, but I have not seen any I like. When new players bring over a dulcimer with friction pegs, I know that I need a lot of time to get them in tune.  What's wrong with geared tuners? I also play on 3 strings, not 4. When I started playing fast tunes, my fingers got "stuck" between the 2 unison strings, so I took one off. Now I have a "Modern Mountain" dulcimer, and they only come with 3 strings--standard---and geared tuners! Love that instrument and am planning on purchasing an upgraded one next summer, as I now have the standard (cheapest) model.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2005 04:58 pm |
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12th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Gail- Esthetics No, it is just that I am somewhat of the old curmudgeon traditionalist type - like I said, I could change my mind. After all, the guitar-type tuners on my Deering Good Time Banjo aren't exactly what is found on older or more expensive banjos! Actually, I think on the right instruments, friction pegs should work fine - they keep my fiddle in tune, and I probably wouldn't do much re-tuning of a dulcimer. I figure DAD would probably do me fine for the stuff I am thinking would be in my songlist. Also, I would probably be a single-string melody, 2-note drone player, not a chorder/fingerpicker. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it (until I change my story)  Keep on pickin'Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2005 05:04 pm |
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13th Post |
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Gail Lewis Approved
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ok, whatever floats your boat. I am a traditionalist----but would never want a (playable) dulcimer with fiddle pegs---unless there are fine tuners on the end like on the fiddle.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2005 05:25 pm |
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14th Post |
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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I fully understand Brad's wish for the friction pegs. They just evoke a timeless feeling. Age, beauty, history... Ahhh... And how you feel about your instrument is going to affect how you play it, even if it is a hassle to tune. But geared tuners are so much simpler to keep in tune. I sometimes wonder why fiddles don't have geared tuners on them more often. Some folks claim the geared tuners mess up the sound, but I doubt any of them have any scientific tests to verify this. Anyway, there's a gent on Everything Dulcimer who goes by the handle of Harpmaker. He produces a line of lap dulcimers that people seem to like very well. His student model is about a hundred bucks and made of thin plywood. Frankly, I am convinced that this is not a bad thing. There is an ineffable joy to having all solid woods in an instrument, but for sound, I don't think it matters as much as people claim, provided construction is good. Those cardboard dulcimers (I kid you not) are supposed to sound good and they are nothing more than a fingerboard on a cardboard box! Apple Creek and the Wal Mart dulcimers (that was a surprise!) sound bad because they are badly built, not because plywood is inherantly a bad material. Anyway, the truth is a decent dulcimer sounds wonderful, even if you never expand beyond single-string playing. I also play bagpipes, so the drones are already familiar to me. On Scottish bagpipes, you are limited to 9 notes and your drones. Imagine tuning the dulcimer to Ddd and just playing up to fret 7 and only on the melody string. That's the entire scale you get (bagpipes get one note below the bottom keynote of the scale) and there are thousands of fantastic pieces of music written and performed for this very limited instrument. I think that a lot of us would benefit from exploring the possibilities of a fairly limited playing style (single string on the dulcimer, for example) a lot more before we get into the chords or even messing with the other strings at all. But the beauty of a folk instrument like the dulcimer is that it sounds great with simple or complex playing. Can't wait until I finish building mine. I'm currently tossing one together, based on plans in Dennis Waring's book Making Folk Instruments in Wood. He has a more recent version of the book out, but I like the older design better. I'm using 1/8" lauan plywood with an Alaska birch fretboard and geared tuners. Total cost should be in the range of $20. I already had clamps and tools. I can't help commenting on the idea that the hourglass (or guitar on a diet) shape is the historically more correct pattern. I have a marvelous book called Musical Instruments of the Southern Appalachian Mountains. In it, there are 33 dulcimers pictured (7 are in the addendum at the end of the book) and only 3 are hourglass shaped. Most are pear-shaped or lozenge-shaped. A couple are rectangular. (And the fingerboards range from fretless to chromatic, with a few really wierd setups - including one with no fingerboard at all, apparently played with a slide!) But I do agree that the hourglass is the one we all think of as the most classic shape. Perhaps because Jean Ritchie plays one on the cover of her book, which is a large part of how a lot of folks got introduced to the instrument in the first place. Funny how that all works out. -Patrick
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| Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2005 05:41 pm |
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15th Post |
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Gail Lewis Approved
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Patrick, I also have that wonderful book--bought it when I visited Foxfire Museum in July. It was a well spent $9.95!!! Well worth it with all those pictures. I love to look at the very old dulcimers. Gives one a sense of "roots". I totally agree with all you said. Someone donated a cardboard dulcimer to our club and it sounds as nice as some of the better dulcimers. The fretboard is well made and in tune. Also, easy to play. I have student model Modern Mountain Dulcimer which I love. I intend to get a fancier Modern Mountain next summer. Saving up my $$$$$. Good luck in making your dulcimer. Sounds like you will have no trouble learning to play it.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 4th, 2005 09:10 pm |
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16th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Patrick wrote:I sometimes wonder why fiddles don't have geared tuners on them more often. The electriciti-fied ones do! But, then, in my catalog of acoustic instruments, that ain't one of them! We will have to see what I wind up with, it is all in the future. I was happy to see an opinion on the Wal-cimer, I had seen it the last time I was in, and kinda' wondered about it. Luckily, I didn't have the do-re-mi to pick it up at the time (and it was boxed, so I couldn't try it - typical WM ploy). Keep on pickin'Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 5th, 2005 07:18 am |
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17th Post |
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Patrick_Woolery Approved
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Brad- The WalMart dulcimer got a lot of scorn over on Everything Dulcimer a couple of months ago when one of the makers went to WalMart and took one out of its box to get a closer look. I didn't expect to see them show up here in Alaska, but they did, recently. Just what I could see through the little window in the box bugged me a bit. The soundhole that was visible (simplified F hole) had splinters hanging around the edge. That, if nothing else, should tell you how fast these suckers are banged out. A couple of swipes with sandpaper would have taken care of that cosmetic problem. Being as you are in Tucson, swing by The Folk Shop and see if they have any in stock. If nothing else, you will get a chance to strum one and see how you like it. I have family down there and I make a point of getting by that shop every time I get to visit. They have always been very nice about letting me mess with any instrument, even if I am only there to get a pick. (Gotta buy something, right?) You might find that it doesn't wind your clock. I find the idea of a musical saw wonderful and magical. The sound is hideous in the extreme and I intend to never subject my wife to the sound of one in the house. (The kids like the one recording I have of a saw, so they may one day cause a great deal of consternation in their own musical pursuits...) You never know whether an instrument suits you until you actually try it. And it is fun to go to the Folk Shop anyway. I will try to post a picture of my plywood dulcimer when (if) I get it done. I messed up the markers on the fingerboard and have to figure out what to do about that. And I want fancier soundholes than the materials deserve, so that will be a project for when the kids let me get an hour in the shop. Urg. Anyway, enough of me for now! -Patrick
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| Posted: Wed Oct 5th, 2005 07:18 pm |
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18th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Patrick- The Folk Shop was one of the first music stores I hit after I moved here! Right off the bat I got to play a great banjo in their banjo room "The sound is hideous in the extreme" - sounds like my fiddling I have a pretty good idea of what I want to use the dulcimer for, one of my brothers made one while in grad school or just after, but doesn't play it. My other brother was heavily into OTM and can play just about anything he puts his hands on. He played Don's dulcimer one evening while we were all together (I lived at Lake Tahoe at the time, Don lives in Weaverville in the Trinity Alps about 500 miles NW of Tahoe, and Dan lives in Florida) several years ago. My want of it is to accompany vocals of old time ballads (Pretty Polly, Little Birdie, etc.). Keep on pickin'Brad Last edited on Wed Oct 5th, 2005 07:20 pm by banjo brad ____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 01:34 pm |
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19th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I think the reason that friction pegs persist on fiddles is because of the short neck and relative lower tension. But also remember that most fiddles have a fine tuner geared-gizmo on the tailpiece. I've seen fiddlers with fine tuners on all the strings. I've also seen friction pegs with a locking mechanism. Once the instrument is tuned, a small knob on the winder is tightened to hold the peg in place. Makes tuning much easier. Basses used large geared tuners. Maybe classical fiddlers use friction pegs out of orneriness? Over the years, I've lost more than a bit of hearing, that plus some stage work makes me want to use every tuning assurance as possible. This is the little beauty! Placed on my big tuning aid for size reference. And it uses the same tuners as my autoharp. The same wrench fits perfectly. Attachment: dulcimer.jpg (Downloaded 75 times) Last edited on Thu Oct 6th, 2005 03:09 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 04:38 pm |
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20th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Great looking contraption - it would have been nice if you hadn't placed that small wire and wood contraption in the middle of the view  Really, that dulcimer looks nice - your own design? Plywood, huh. Post a sound file when you get a chance! Keep on pickin'Brad oops. That's the short one you had dropped on you. Danged senior moments  I got responders confuselated again.Last edited on Thu Oct 6th, 2005 04:41 pm by banjo brad ____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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